ChatterBank8 mins ago
Please Tell Us The Truth, Who Should We Trust?
26 Answers
/// Christos Stylianides, the EU commissioner in charge of immigration, privately acknowledged concerns over allowing Turkey visa free access to the Schengen area countries which would allow the country’s 77million citizens to come to the UK in five years time. ///
/// Mr Cameron said provisions in the deal on visas and refugee resettlement would not apply to Britain because it is not part of the EU’s Schengen “border-free” area. ///
/// Ukip leader Nigel Farage who said he was in effect opening the door for 77 million Turks to be allowed into the UK within five years. ///
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/// Mr Cameron said provisions in the deal on visas and refugee resettlement would not apply to Britain because it is not part of the EU’s Schengen “border-free” area. ///
/// Ukip leader Nigel Farage who said he was in effect opening the door for 77 million Turks to be allowed into the UK within five years. ///
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Hypognosis
What Turkey is being offered in return for policing the EUs external southern border is not full EU membership, but access to travel in the Schengen area.
Full membership would let them work and settle anywhere in the EU, but that is not the deal. They are getting the ability to travel freely, not work and settlement rights. And that travel is not to the UK because we exempted ourselves from the area.
So news that 77million Turks can come here is entirely wrong and Mr Farage knows it.
What Turkey is being offered in return for policing the EUs external southern border is not full EU membership, but access to travel in the Schengen area.
Full membership would let them work and settle anywhere in the EU, but that is not the deal. They are getting the ability to travel freely, not work and settlement rights. And that travel is not to the UK because we exempted ourselves from the area.
So news that 77million Turks can come here is entirely wrong and Mr Farage knows it.
Here you go Hypognosis. I could find lots and lots of links if you like.
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Dave.
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Dave.
@webbo3
Call me pernickety but a "welcome", to a visitor who has just arrived on your doorstep is subtly different from an overt invitation to visit.
I alluded to gatecrashers at a party and it is equivalent to the host giving them a welcome because it would be an embarrassment to *be seen to* turn away any potential addition to the party but exaggeratedly so, to be seen to turn away a group of "other" ethnicity. The fact that they are strangers to you, of unknown wealth level (trustability) will be lost on the kind of onlookers who would leap to the conclusion that their lovely host was some blatant racist.
The first article link refers, obliquely, to "events of 70 years ago", so Merkel was caught in this same trap, afaic.
I've copied a quote from link 1
//Of all the irresponsible decisions taken in recent years by European politicians, few will cause as much human misery as Angela Merkel’s plan to welcome Syrian refugees to Germany.//
but only to point out that it mentions "welcome". I was hoping for a speech quote where a clear invite goes out.
She didn't actually need to go that far though: as the article says, the Syrians have mobiles and access to western news stories (instant page translation etc) these days so they can see other migrants make it safely. They'd come without an invite. They'd probably still come if Europeans drifted to the right and hate speech was rampant. It's still safer than death from above.
Call me pernickety but a "welcome", to a visitor who has just arrived on your doorstep is subtly different from an overt invitation to visit.
I alluded to gatecrashers at a party and it is equivalent to the host giving them a welcome because it would be an embarrassment to *be seen to* turn away any potential addition to the party but exaggeratedly so, to be seen to turn away a group of "other" ethnicity. The fact that they are strangers to you, of unknown wealth level (trustability) will be lost on the kind of onlookers who would leap to the conclusion that their lovely host was some blatant racist.
The first article link refers, obliquely, to "events of 70 years ago", so Merkel was caught in this same trap, afaic.
I've copied a quote from link 1
//Of all the irresponsible decisions taken in recent years by European politicians, few will cause as much human misery as Angela Merkel’s plan to welcome Syrian refugees to Germany.//
but only to point out that it mentions "welcome". I was hoping for a speech quote where a clear invite goes out.
She didn't actually need to go that far though: as the article says, the Syrians have mobiles and access to western news stories (instant page translation etc) these days so they can see other migrants make it safely. They'd come without an invite. They'd probably still come if Europeans drifted to the right and hate speech was rampant. It's still safer than death from above.
Hypognosis
That was my point too.
Germany, France, UK are the destinations of choice because we have the biggest economies, and the best prospects for a job and a future life. The refugees/migrants arrive here without invite, enticement or desire on our part to have them. Once they are here, we cannot let them die on our streets, so we make the best of a bad situation.
That is exactly what Merkel has done, which is being misrepresented as a kindly welcome, rather than a reluctant acceptance of the reality of the situation.
That was my point too.
Germany, France, UK are the destinations of choice because we have the biggest economies, and the best prospects for a job and a future life. The refugees/migrants arrive here without invite, enticement or desire on our part to have them. Once they are here, we cannot let them die on our streets, so we make the best of a bad situation.
That is exactly what Merkel has done, which is being misrepresented as a kindly welcome, rather than a reluctant acceptance of the reality of the situation.
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/// It's still safer than death from above.///
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/// It's still safer than death from above.///
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@Svejk
The ones so keen to go home should google "syria wreckage" and check the photos.
Of course, if they are in the building trade, then they've got jobs for life.
Slight problem of Aß-hat still being alive but there have been a few prominent extra-judicial killings already and we're getting a reputation for it which we could do without.
Indeed, the west seems paralyzed with fear about regime change in Syria, not knowing what monsters might fill the vacuum. And Putin has just been busily helping his pal/weapons customer. A total political minefield.
The ones so keen to go home should google "syria wreckage" and check the photos.
Of course, if they are in the building trade, then they've got jobs for life.
Slight problem of Aß-hat still being alive but there have been a few prominent extra-judicial killings already and we're getting a reputation for it which we could do without.
Indeed, the west seems paralyzed with fear about regime change in Syria, not knowing what monsters might fill the vacuum. And Putin has just been busily helping his pal/weapons customer. A total political minefield.
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