Epicurus

[wildwood]

Happened to come across this quote. Can anyone argue with this?


Is God willing to prevent evil, but he can not?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both willing and able?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him God?

[Old_Geezer]

A book I assume is written by humans showing their flawed understanding of their deity ?

[naomi24]

Ah, right. And your understanding isn't flawed. I see.

[hereIam]

Is it wrong to not believe in God, but to believe in the afterlife ?

[naomi24]

hereIam, that warrants a separate thread. Good question.

[Old_Geezer]

I'm not claiming understanding so much as showing how the original quote was flawed, and not worth putting forward as an issue with deities. It's an issue with humans insisting they know and deities have to do this and that, as we humans tell them.

[Mamyalynne]

The musings of Epicurus scant though they are , are as valid (or not) as the musings of any one who has lived.

It's hard not to like a chap who strove for happiness through freedom from fear and absence of pain.

One doesn't have to agree with all that is quoted from him but drink it in and carry on musing.

As we do.

[naomi24]

OG, Since God is - according to those who worship him and claim to know all about him - loving, compassionate, forgiving ... and omnipotent…. but nevertheless appears to do nothing to make the world he allegedly created a better place, I don’t think the quote is flawed. It’s simple logic.

[Khandro]

naomi; //who said there is no such thing as evil? It is mentioned frequently and figures quite prominently in the Bible.,,

Epicurus (maybe) on evil, circa four centuries before the bible.

[vetuste_ennemi]

300 years before the NT, Khandro, but (excluding the Apocrypha) 300 years AFTER the latest post-exilic OT books (Nehemiah/Ezra/Esther?)

[vetuste_ennemi]

200 odd for the second number. Can't count.

[RATTER15]

An interesting pic I seen a while back, says it really! http://tinypic.com/m/jq6drc/4

[RATTER15]

hereIam

"Is it wrong to not believe in God, but to believe in the afterlife ?"

Why would it be wrong?

I think even if either of them existed I would say they are two very different subjects and one wouldn't depend on the other.

[naomi24]

Khandro, now I’m confused. In one post you decry the philosophy of Epicurus as ‘infantile nonsense’ and in another eagerly offer his name in support of your claim that ‘The subject of evil begins and ends with man’.

You’re not being a little picky here by any chance? You know, as religious people often are?

[wildwood]

If evil and good is not a 'thing' he is supposed to have created, would that also invalidate the happiness, worshiping, etc. that is supposed to appease the creator?

[ll_billym]

//Then whence cometh evil?//

Maybe 'good' in God's eyes is exactly how things are, the place is just how he likes it and he's absolutely loving it.

Humans find fault with it, but then humans find fault with pretty much everything, wanting 'better' is in our inherent nature and of course why not.

Maybe he prevents dastardly evils on a daily basis just to keep this world at the 'kinda crap' level that most humans think it's at. But of course we don't notice that because all we know is what happens, reality, not what doesn't happen.

I don't think subjective value judgements on the perceived state of the world can count as evidence against the existence of God.

[naomi24]

ll_billym, If he’s capable of preventing ‘dastardly evils on a daily basis’ why would he want to “keep this world at the 'kinda crap' level that most humans think it's at.” That seems perverse.

[ll_billym]

Naomi, what you describe as 'perverse' is just that gap between what you perceive as happening in the world and what you think should be happening in the world if God exists.

To somebody else that gap will be wider or narrower, does that mean that God is more likely or less likely to exist? To true believers there is no gap, hence they believe in God.

Perception gaps are not a measure of anything and that's why I don't think that any judgement based on 'the evil world' or suchlike is any sort of evidence either way.

[naomi24]

ll_billym, The question isn’t whether or not God exists – but rather whether or not he possesses the attributes ascribed to him.