Tusk Says..

[cassa333]

The UK is still under the illusion they they can cherry pick.

A hope perhaps. A wish perhaps. And you have to start at your best case senario. It's just that the only deal the EU want is the same as now without thenability to have a say or influence.

But in all honesty even the government knows we won't get anything like a cherry picked custom deal.

Get out then see what we can get.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43175201

[Theland]

We could offer to stay in if the EU agreed to a root and branch reform of its governance. For example, I heard about this stuff called, "democracy." Might be worth looking into.

[Theland]

The EU is not even as democratic as the Palestinian Authority, where Mahmoud Abbas is in the tenth year of his four year term of office.

[Old_Geezer]

The only possible illusion is that the EU might negotiate. But instead they bandy around the "cherry picking" phrase as if they're convincing someone of something.

Obviously they imply they don't want anyone else the have requirements, but to just do as the EU want.

[cassa333]

Theland.

Two posts that contradict each other.??

Cameron tried to negotiate and get changes but crashed and burned. The EU will not change so trying to do it from the inside is a non starter.

In fact in some respects I think it might be easier (note easier not easy) from the outside.

I honestly think trying to negotiate is pointless. This cliff edge that so many go on about will only be a cliff edge if someone somewhere doesn't pull their finger out and makes proper plans for a withdrawal.

Best case senario is obviously cherry picking but that simply ain't going to happen. Move on along to the next best plan and then the next until I think will be the last plan of just leave.

But that won't happen because there are too many people wanting to stay in. It looks like that the Labour Party via Emily Thornburry are going to say they will stay in a 'much the same' customs deal but pay through the nose for it. Another stupid idea as far as I'm concerned.

But it is the sort of thing that mAy will eventually come up with that she will say is a benefit even if it isn't. Just so she can say we got a deal.

[youngmafbog]

Of course cherry picking is not acceptable to the EU, only remainers seem to think that.

As you say, get out and then negotiate anything required. Trade will continue whether the EU like it or not business usually find a way the only difference will be tariffs. But then we pay one almighty tariff anyway for a few big Companies to make more money most business in the UK has no dealings with the EU but are bound by their red tape costing estimated billions.

[KARL]

From pretty much every angle, this issue has from the beginning been a major mess. The point is of course that the EU is basically a club with its own framework, rules, procedures and aims for now, the immediate future and in the long term. Normally, any/every member will have its own views and aims, some of which will be to some extent outside the club's framework and that member will voice and lobby for those aims and the changes they might require. This has happened and does still happen but the results depend on the amount of support found within the club.

In the UK's case there has been a series of tantrums wanting to negotiate a special deal for the UK, nobody else. There was and is, understandably, unease over all this on both sides, the EU and UK - in the UK's case it revolves about not having got everything on each occasion nor (even) the latest new demands either. The EU's (collective) irritation is evident and something anybody can understand and very many (but not everybody, especially in the UK) can easily understand why.

To me it looks like the EU, although having stated that they would prefer the UK to remain a member (why ?), accepts that the UK government intends to leave. But the EU is not going to run after the UK with escalating promises, rather like a jilted admirer/lover. The EU is ready (they say) to listen to what the UK wants and even consider accommodating their wishes but not unless it suits the EU - why should they ?

The UK says it is leaving - fine, leave, and the EU has pointed to the existing terms of leaving the club. No, the UK wants to get more time and my understanding is that the EU has given the UK more time. The UK has indicated they want to be members regarding anything and everything they want to get out of it but not have anything to do with the duties and responsibilities of membership (following the rules) of the club. The UK wants to reshape the EU rules regarding leaving and much else as it leaves - as always, just for itself. There are a number of words one would use to cover such behaviour in normal life, none of them flattering. Why should the EU entertain such demands ?

Perhaps the main problem is that the UK has a hopelessly distorted idea of its own importance in the universe - its self image is probably some 100 years out of date.

[cassa333]

I tend to agree with most of what you say Karl.

The EU don't have to give the UK anything so if it doesn't suit them they won't.

We have to make up our mind to either stay in but out of the club or out altogether. Since we voted out that is what should happen.

[Old_Geezer]

"The EU don't have to give the UK anything so if it doesn't suit them they won't."

Likewise the UK don't have to give the EU anything so if it doesn't suit them they won't.

But using intelligence, it behoves both sides to be reasonable and agree a mutually advantageous new agreement; but every report we see indicates only the UK is making such an effort. The EU seems simply to refuse to move from their starting position in any meaningful way.

[cassa333]

I know OG. Our numpties give in too easily and the EU don't really budge.

Add to that the likes of Anne Sourby or whatever her name is and we are onto a loser.

I so wish I could stand up in a packed HP and say something along the line nes of ... just stop it.