Bullying?

[TopKat]

Does anyone else think that having possessions stolen is a form of bullying. My son whose 11 recently had a school shoe taken while he was doing PE. The school are treating it as if it's been mislaid although someone has clearly taken it and I'm furious. They were nearly new shoes and I'm going to have to replace them! Also, a couple of months ago, his jacket disappeared for several days before reappearing. Again, it was obviously taken and again, the school behaved as though there was nothing they could do apart from making my son look for it. His PE teacher even had the nerve to tell him off for being careless with his shoes which he'd left in the changing room with all the others!! Do others think this isn't right. In my day (showing my age here, I know) theft was treated severely. How are our children going to learn what's right from wrong if the school authorities don't show them??

[MrsJo49155]

I can see both sides of the argument but my son is at a school which has a duty community police officer on the actual site during the school day and they still have things go missing!

As a parent this is totally annoying and costly but as a TA I can also say it is just as frustrating for us to find the culprit - unfortunately some parents just dont seem to have the same conscience as myself if their son/daughter bring home someone elses property.

Surely if the culprit had intended to steal your sons shoes rather than just play a prank (or indeed your son may have put it down someone else?) they would have taken BOTH of them?

[PinkFizz]

This is mad to say that things are "lost" and not the responsibility of the school.What would we all do if we went swimming,or to the local gym and on returning to the changing room and finding our clothes missing,the staff said "oh,you must have mislaid them". We simply would go to the police! It is theft! All my son's items are clearly labelled twice,and then written on with permanent marker inside so there is no way somebody doesnt know they have taken the wrong item.

[Gevs1966]

I feel sorry for the kids of the people who phone the police over a changing room prank. Bullied for years. Great parenting!!

[Pippa68]

VERY VERY well said, noxlumos.

If clothes are not lavelled I can understand the schools frustration. In our schools we have 'lost property day' when parents can go into school and have a rummage. Any unclaimed uniform goes into the school clothing bank for those on low incomes to buy for a small donation to school funds. However:

5 sweatshirts (clearly labelled) gone missing in one year at a cost of �15.99 per sweatshirt. This isn't a case of uniform being mislaid, it is theft. Why should I subsidise other families when even though we aren't on a low income or on benefits, we are on a budget with 4 children needing uniforms? it doesn't matter if a family can afford it or not, it is totally wrong to have to purchase more uniform to replace stolen ones.

Apparently the uniform policies are under review ~ someone has decided that we have to pay far too much for uniforms anyway. For example, like many other families I have to purchase uniforms from a specialist shop. The polo shirts cost around 3 times the amount it would cost to buy a pack of two from Tescos, simply because they have to have a school logo. When you consider the fact that my children have to wear the school sweatshirt in all weathers (special consideration given for the heatwave) I find this unecessary.

One of the reasons uniform is desirable is to cut clothing costs, and while I fully support a uniform policy or dress code, this reason has sailed right out of the window because of the schools lapsed attitude to theft. School is supposed to be life education as well as academia.

[noxlumos]

Gevs, I take the parenting of my children very seriously and don't need a weak muppet like you critising me or any of the other people on here who are sick and tired not of "pranks" but of bullying of our kids by both the bullies and then the School when the bullies are complained about.If you allow people to get away with behaviour like that then they up their ante and push it that bit further and the whole situation becomes worse. What you are advocating is that bullies and the school should be able to do anything they b****y well like which just disempowers the child affected. Stop being such a weak little Boy's Own Paper reader and grow up. Bullies bully if and when they can get away with it and people like you just make it even worse by pretending it doesn't happen. Get a grip and stop critising those of us who are actively doing something for the betterment of our families. I'd hate to be your child you uncaring muppet.

[Gevs1966]

I lost count of the amount of jumpers, PE kits etc that I lost while at school, simple mistakes while geting changed, putting things down at break times to play football or something and forgetting to pick them up, childish pranks that go too far because the instigator may not realise the extent of trouble (like most kids). I, like most of my friends, would get into trouble with my parents for losing things and so would create little stories to explain their disappearance like "it got stolen". No parents want to admit it but children do make things up to divert blame away from themselves. If the things were "stolen" at school the child will know who takes it as that is the way the playground politics works.

It winds me up something chronic nowadays that every little altercation or trick or prank that goes wrong or any sort of playground banter is automatically classed as bullying. it encourages more people to falsely claim they are being bullied when getting into trouble and takes the attention of those who are genuinely being abused. I was seriously bullied in the early years of comprehensive school, beaten up with alarming regularity and had all sorts of disgusting things done to me and I'm sorry but this just isn't in the same league.

It's highly amusing to me that you call me a weak muppet but thats ok because I personally think you are a self important know it all who instead of encouraging their children to make a stand, face and overcome their problems and adversaries with your support you pull them out of school blaming anyone and everyone for anything you don't like that happens in their lives.

Great "life education" that is isn't it!!! Things get tough, don't worry we'll leave the bad people and go and play on our own!
Who needs to grow up?!!!!

[noxlumos]

Yeah I did "pull" my children from school because to be honest I don't like the standard of education in most schools or the values taught there.Too much emphasis is put on "succeeding at any cost", people are disregarded in favour of material things and the herd mentality encouraged. I want my children to be strong, independant, free thinking people who have good values and who want to make a positive difference to the world and so far that seems to be what they are doing, as my eldest son Danny ( the deaf one that presumably I should have left being beaten and bullied in your book) is now a photo journalist who's just covered the marches in our native north of Ireland and my other children all do various things that challenge them every day mentally and phyiscally and I have never seen them back down when they are right or run away from a confrontation just because it would be easier.Individuality breeds strength not weakness.As for myself I've had suffiecient life experience in West Belfast of playing with "bad people" and really don't need your approval of my parenting methods or of myself, you have no idea of my background or what I endured myself as a child, but one thing is abundantly clear to me from those experiences and that is that bullying should never be tolerated and if you had any meaningful life experience you'd realise that yourself. Now go away and neglect your kid's welfare a bit more, because we all know telling a little kid that they aren't being bullied when they are makes them a "real" man like you,don't we?Muppet.

[Gevs1966]

Don't put words into my mouth you arrogant tw*t!

I never claimed to know anything about your background (only what you stated previously) and likewise you don't know anything about mine. You also assume things about my own life experience without knowing anything about it.

I never said or advocated telling a child he is not being bullied when they are either. I said that with parental support children should be encouraged to overcome problems like these and to stand up to things like this.

I also never said that bullying should be tolerated, only expressed my concern that every little thing gets classed as bullying these days taking attention to those who are truly being abused.

There are millions of strong individual characters who went through this "herd" education you refer to. It is your choice to take your children out of school and that is fair enough but thet to criticise teachers in general in the manner you do is, again, very arrogant of you. I dare say your children would have grown into the same strong, individual adults by staying in school and having a good, strong parental influence to accompany their education.

I also never implied that your son should have stayed at school to be beaten and bullied either.

I just hope that your children aren't as arrogant as you when it comes to other people's opinions and resort to the instigation of insults into a perfectly reasonable debate when people disagree with them.

[noxlumos]

Okay, Gevs, I'm happy to wear being an "arrogant T**t" if you'll kindly share with us your miracle cure for bullying when a little kid is surrounded by 6 or 7 older kids and the teachers do nothing, so that everyday is a living hell for them. How do they "stand up and face it" with our support?
A practical plan would be of value here because it seems to be affecting a lot of people on this thread and I'd love to know where I went wrong. Assuming you can come up with something concrete and sensible then I'm happy to retract the Muppet remark and own up to being an arrogant t**t.
I await with baited breath the answer to all our prayers.

[Gevs1966]

Concrete and sensible?

Firstly the child has to agree with you that they are being bullied and that they want to stand up and do something about it. This is most often the hardest part as people who are being bullied do not want anyone to know in case the perpetrators behaviour towards them get worse.

Doing something blatant like calling the police for missing belongings only draws attention to the child concerned and the daily conditions for this child will get worse as a result . I am speaking from experience with this as this happened to a boy in my school who was ridiculed for ages and never really lived his parents actions down.

Dealing with any sort of complaint, requires evidence the more types the better. It is a great idea to keep a diary for a few weeks, noting in it every occasion of abuse and those involved. Hard evidence is a massive bonus, for example, whilst I was in a lesson one day I was getting constntly spat on and it was all collecting in my coat which was on my chair and made a big stain. Perfect to use in a situation like this if not a little disgusting! Pictures of any bruises from beatings etc all tied in with the diary will go a long way.

During this period the obvious support and love from you is needed by the child to get through it and put up with it while you get what you need.

Confidentially getting one or two of your child's favourite teachers on board at an early stage before you go hgher up the chain is also a good idea as they can then back you up at a later date. It is a good idea to get the favourites of your child as these will be people he/she feels they can trust etc.

Old and recent report cards are also handy as this shows the deterioration of academic standards common with victims of bullying.

[Gevs1966]

You can then request a meeting with senior teachers. Go straight to the Headteacher but extend the invitation to the child's head of year and form tutor etc.
You then kick up such a stink in that meeting armed with all your evidence and you demand that the perpetrators are excluded. Fight your child's corner as hard as you can and you do not rest until you get the desired result. involve, govenors, local councillors and education authorities if you have to but with the dim view of bullying that exists in the education service you will get the result desired if you have planned in advance.
These meetings will also be confidential to ensure minimum comeback on your child.
The local education authority will have to get involved, especially when the they can be seen as not taking bullying seriously

[Gevs1966]

Obviously it is not as straight forward as it seems writing it down and there will be a few tears along the way but it definitely works and my Parents were superb during all this time. I know other people who have done very similar also and they would also advocate a for =m of action to that above.

You asked for concrete and sensible........ well??

[PinkFizz]

what on earth is going on here??

[noxlumos]

Gevs, what you describe is EXACTLY what many terminally bullied children's parents do to NO EFFECT. Do you really think we are all so crass and stupid as to have not gone down those very routes BEFORE we resort to calling schools apathetic and complacent? Meanwhile this process you describe goes on FOR MONTHS. That is month's worth of bullying and degradation for the child concerned which you may think is ok but I don't.
The problem we were discussing was not with the buillies, we all know kids bully, but with the attitude of the schools TO such bullying.Consider me arrogant all you like, but no way am I prepared to put up with anyone victimising my child, be that school bully or school teacher by their crap apathetic attitude to that bullying. Sometimes people have to take more serious action than leaving their kid's welfare in the hands of people who have demonstrated time and time again that they can't be bothered to set the example they should. That's why people are calling the police because your methods rarely work and we've already tried them. So I'll apologise happily for calling you a muppet but my arrogant tw@t opinion of schools by and large still stand because my personal experience has been that they are almost universally complacent and stick their heads in the sand at every opportunity, so your suggestion may be concrete and sensible but unfortunately it doesn't work very often ( and when it does, not very quickly) which is unacceptable.

[noxlumos]

sorry pink, I get a little bit worked up over this particular topic as my one son was bullied horrifically at school for being deaf and the school did absolutely ****** all except suggst that basically he put up with it because they couldn't be bothered to do anything about it, and unfortunately Gevs caught me on a bad day. Apologies if it offended anyone, but bullies I can deal with as they are only kids who are often suffering and misguided themselves, but adults ignoring bullies just make me want to wring their weak, complacent necks.

[Gevs1966]

I'm not ignoring bullies, nor am I weak or complacent!

However, generalising on all schools and teachers is very wrong on your part. There are thousands of teachers and schools out there that do care about bullying and do not bury their heads in the sand. If you are talking from your own experience then maybe you should just demonstrate that by only talking about that particular experience and not by casting misguided aspertions over the whole profession.

[EssJay1]

TopKat, your post seems to be have been taken over. I'm sorry if my answer caused anger to those who have clearly decided that all schools are bad places.
I would agree that continued stealing of possessions is bullying. The school needs to know about each and every incident, and you need to be sure that your child takes good care of his named equipment.
I currently have a bag full of lost property in my class room, none of it is named. As I am a primary teacher, the clothes have to belong to someone in my room. I have stood, at different times of the day, when all the children are in and gone through each item singly. I still have a full bag of clothes - including one nike trainer!

[WendyS]

If the school staff are not taking this theft seriously, can't you write a letter of complaint to the Chairman of the School Governors? Ask the headmaster for his/her address and tell him why you need it. That might persuade him to take the matter a little more seriously..
Could you son put all his spare clothes in a rucksack and take it into the gym or out to the OE yard. That way it would be under supervision all the time.