Snooker With Cue Ball In Hand

[kenny1234]

Your opponent goes in off and you are "in hand" ---if you move the cue ball {whilst deciding where to play from in the D) with the tip your cue rather than using your hand and accidently move or touch another ball---is it a foul? I understood that to start or re-start a frame, the tip of the cue has to make contact with the cue ball IN AN OBVIOUS ATTEMPT TO PLAY A STROKE

[dannyk13]

Yes, a foul.

[Sipowicz]

Foul.

[JJ109]

I don't know what the rules say but logically it must be a foul. Otherwise there is nothing to stop you from rearranging all the other balls on the table!

[kenny1234]

Fair enough----but am I correct about the start of a frame where I read somewhere that the frame doesn't start until the cue ball has " been struck with the tip of the cue within the D-------which would mean that any ball accidently being touched or moved would simply be re-placed by the referee. Also ---on the same theme,if a player (drunk)played the yellow instead of the cue ball--no foul because the frame hadn,t started!!!

[dannyk13]

As I understand it the frame is in play when the striker takes his stance, although I could be mistaken.

[kenny1234]

Agree Danny------once the frame is underway.

[ABerrant]

Rules of Snooker:

3. Mode of Play
(c) The first player plays from in-hand, the frame commencing when the cueball has been placed on the table and contacted by the tip of the cue either:
(i) as a stroke is made; or
(ii) while addressing the cue-ball.

5. Playing from In-hand
(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke, then the cue-ball is not in play.

https://www.wpbsa.com/governance/rules-of-snooker/

[New Judge]

And also, see the definition of "in hand (Rule 2.9):

9. In-hand

(a) The cue-ball is in-hand:

(i) before the start of each frame;
(ii) when it has entered a pocket;
(iii) when it has been forced off the table; or
(iv) when the black is spotted in the event of tied scores.

(b) The cue-ball remains in-hand until:

(i) it is played fairly from in-hand; or
(ii) a foul is committed whilst the ball is on the table.

So, rule 2.9 (b)(ii) shows that a foul can be committed whilst the cue-ball is still "in hand". Clearly striking a ball other than the cue ball with the cue is a foul.

I think you are confused about a frame being "re-started". A frame does not come to a halt when a player goes in-off (and so it does not need to be re-started).

[kenny1234]

I have been in touch with a local "A" grade referee, who agreed that if a frame hasn't started, moving the cue ball around and accidentally catching one of the baulk colours would not be penalized if it was obvious the player wasn't attempting to play a stroke.However once the frame is underway and the same situation arose, that would be a foul, which was the original point I was trying to make. Thanks everyone

[New Judge]

Yes ken, I think the confusion arises from this in your OP:

"I understood that to start or re-start a frame, the tip of the cue..."

Your question was about what happens after a player goes in-off and his opponent thus becomes "in hand". As I said in my earlier post, the frame is not "stopped" at this point and is therefore not restarted. In fact the only circumstance I can think of where a frame is formally stopped is when a "stalemate" arises (e.g. when the cue ball gets trapped among the pack of reds and the players play a succession of "tap" shots of a few millimetres). Then, of course, the referee may decide to halt the frame and re-rack.