Ok Welcome On Board But What's All This "Non Binary" ***?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/30/i-felt-like-i-was-born-again-first-non-binary-person-granted-uk-refugee-status
....he's a geezer 4FS!

[Untitled]

I think it is you that is the freak theland most people are not so spiteful and nasty. How on earth does the existence of people like this cause society to become less stable? prove it, i will wait.

[jim360]

For Chinajan to be awarded BA especially in light of links below that prove precisely the opposite points shows just how little you care about trying to inform yourself on this topic -- and how little Chinajan is.

For both of your information, firstly on the subject of biological sex, there are two words you'd both do well to read up on: karotype (which is, in this context, the sexual chromosomes an organism possesses), and phenotype, which are the observable characteristics of an organism. Usually, but not always, a person's sexual karotype is the same as their phenotype. As a result, there can be in some rare cases people whose genes are XX but who outwardly appear from birth as male, and vice versa. The BA is factually wrong in this regard. Please do some research, TTT -- you *will* learn something.

What's even more odd is that the BA also makes the point that you seem incapable of grasping: that gender is a social construct, which is what this whole argument is about. Non-binary people are those who don't see themselves as fitting in to either the typical male or typical female gender roles, but rather as something different, perhaps in between, and consequently tend to prefer pronouns such as "they" in order to acknowledge this. It's a matter of vocabulary (which I suspect is where Chinajan and I would disagree, as I'd argue that pronouns are gendered, because historically they clearly have been, rather than sex-based).

[jim360]

As a further point, I know we will probably always disagree in this regard, but the idea that people calling for society to be more tolerant of its minorities are "bigots" beggars belief, especially when we have one person on this site calling anybody different from him "freaks".

Also, TheLand, healthy disagreement is a part of AnswerBank, but insults are not. You don't have to understand trans people, but they are people and they deserve respect and compassion, and if you aren't capable of showing that, then firstly you aren't a very good Christian, and secondly, and far more importantly, you aren't a very good member of AB. Find a better way of expressing your views.

[pixie374]

Jim, 13:12. It's a perfect best answer as far as accuracy goes. It's interesting that one minute you are suggesting that language changes and is fluent, but the next, hanging onto those from wiki. Presumably, you have read your own links and seen the problems there?
But yes, this is about gender... which changes for everyone all the time. So maybe worth not insisting it should be the same as sex?

[jim360]

That's a false equivalence, pixie: It's clear that karotype etc are defined scientifically, in a way that pronouns etc are not and have never been. In particular, it's clear that "female" and "XX" are not in one-to-one correspondence even if you do insist on defining them only in terms of biological sex.

I've made clear, too, that I'm treating sex differently from gender, so in that regard I agree with Chinajan, but the claim that there are no XX men is simply inaccurate.

[pixie374]

It is perfectly accurate. No matter the polite and sensitive words that are used. You obviously know how sex determination works in humans (mammals). There are NO XX men. The presence of the Y alone, is enough to determine that baby is a male. It's literally what it means. Intersex condition have many causes and degrees, but it isn't actually that confusing.

[jackthehat]

The second answer on this post summed up the situation perfectly.
TGT can't and doesn't want to understand *anything* about this issue...he just likes to make posts on it to wind up those more accepting and understanding.

The majority of answers on here show that we, as a society, it seems, have become more comfortable in accepting those who genuinely are non-comformist for want of a better phrase in their gender-identity.
Although, we certainly need some way of ensuring that 'everyone' feels comfortable and unthreatened when they are in vulnerable siutations.
Quite how we do that I am not entirely sure.....

[jim360]

There has never been a point in history where we've defined "female" and "male" by karotype. It doesn't make sense to insist on this, even by appealing to history: the words clearly predate our understanding of genetics. If you are going to attach the words to sex then you are attaching them to phenotype, which, as the links above show, is not necessarily identical to chromosomal content.

[pixie374]

I agree, Jack. It's good people can discuss it now, without being shut down. Between us, I suspect we can get to a solution- but I don't, for one second, believe it will be our current method.

[jim360]

On one thing I hope at least we can agree, Pixie: TTT doesn't understand gender, and it turns out he doesn't understand biological sex either. The disagreement over use of vocabulary is a trifle compared to that.

[pixie374]

Jim... all embryos are potentially female. They only change to male, if there is a Y present. No matter what words you prefer, biology remains the same.
The majority of babies have the external appearance of what they really are... to the point we can rely on it for diagnosis- usually. But genitals are a symptom, not a reason for what sex you are.
You know this.... there are no alternatives between a male and female having a baby, than to end up with the same. It being difficult to tell, does not make an intersex baby less male or female. There is no grey area.

[pixie374]

Tbh, Jim, I think the vocab is a major part of the problem. Since we have interchanged the two words of gender and sex... there has been far more distress.
But yes, I agree it is far more complex than the OP suggests. But in a psychological way.

[pixie374]

Can I just apologise for 14:25, the stats I put are actually the opposite way round. It doesn't make a difference to the rest of my post, but was inaccurate.