Are You Electric Or Hydrogen ?

[youngmafbog]

I think m ost people on here will know that I fall in the hydrogen camp but here is a pretty good article on the debate.

So where do you think things will go?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9690605/ROSS-CLARK-Electric-cars-future-arent-backing-real-green-caars.html

[ToraToraTora]

The problem with Hydrogen is that it takes lecky to separate it from oxygen so surely it's better to use the lecky directly. Unless there is another much more efficient process to separate the hydrogen I can't see how it's really viable.

[ToraToraTora]

I see the article does mention:
"If the aim is to cut carbon emissions, we will need to develop an entire industry based on producing 'green' hydrogen via electrolysis, i.e. passing electric currents through water. At the moment, most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels — which rather defeats the object."

[youngmafbog]

Neither use leccy directly. EV's use a battery so electricity needs to be generated and then transported and somehow connected to the car.

The production of Hydrogen could be done using electrolysis so countries where the sun is readily available or where dams can be made easily could be used. The Hydrogen could then be transported using rail systems or even better pipes, just like the long gas pipes we have today.

[davebro]

I think diesel/petrol/hybrid will see me out!

[ToraToraTora]

YMB: With Hydrogen power you have to make electricity then use that to make hydrogen then use that to make a lot less electricity than you started with. More energy efficient to use the electricity directly. I take your point though, better infrastructure is needed to make Hydrogen viable, bigger and better renewable sources are needed but when that is done there will be a realisation that it's better to use the new power directly rather than waste a lot of it stripping hydrogen atoms out of water.

[ToraToraTora]

a game changer in production will be needed for hydrogen to be viable long term.

[bhg481]

But you don't use the electricity directly; you put it into a battery and then take it back out again. Never 100% efficient and gets worse as the battery ages.

[mushroom25]

battery powered trucks are a non-starter because the weight of the batteries takes up too much of the vehicles carrying capacity. a compromise could be the swedish idea, electrify the motorways so the trucks draw grid power on trunk journeys.

such an idea would (of course) end rail freight forever.

[TheChair]

"battery powered trucks are a non-starter because the weight of the batteries takes up too much of the vehicles carrying capacity"
Tell that to Volvo, mushroom25.

https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/trucks/alternative-fuels/electric-trucks.html

[mushroom25]

//Tell that to Volvo, mushroom25. //

interesting that none of their offerings are shown for trunk haulage - only regional or local.

[dave50]

Sorry but I'm diesel for the foreseeable future.

[youngmafbog]

The big problem still remains charging time - plus the nasty bits used to build batteries and how they are mined and disposed of etc.

If they could build a capacitor type device that could hold the charge enough then maybe EV's will win through.

For now though it really will be 'which will be Betamax'.

[youngmafbog]

Diesel is not going anyway for the foreseeable future Dave.

Boris can make all the dates he likes - but we have seen what he does with those promises.

[ToraToraTora]

agreed YMB a long way to go for either side. Yes I think ships and trucks will be diesel for the foreseeable. They should get diesel jam jars off the road ASAP, that was a con by St Tony and co. Petrol will be around for a long time yet. I'm waiting for a Flux Capacitor to be invented ideally but I must admit to being impressed by my mates Tesla. I wont get one of those but I do like the idea of converting my Jag to lecky if the engine dies.

[youngmafbog]

Been in a few Teslas, dont like them although the acceleration is brill.

The problem was when we were coming down from Farnbough, popped into then MW services and no charging. On a motorway!!

[Hopkirk]

Hydrogen is definitely the future.

You will be able to go to a fuelling station and refuel quickly.

If everyone had electric cars, charging would be very difficult. How many people will be able to have a charging point outside their house, with a guarantee that they can park close enough to charge it every day?

[DTCwordfan]

Hydrogen when they get on top of it.

Anti electricity big time as 65% of the current supply is from oil and gas to begin with, so there's energy loss there and down the transmission lines.

Hope for the future - syn petroleum - where CO2 is extracted from the air, concentrated up and then reacted with H2 to create the basic organic building blocks for oil products - effectively meaning that we rent CO2 from the air, not from fossil fuels..... Yep, they're looking at a project at the moment.

[jno]

hydrogen was just the job for the R101.

[Hopkirk]

It worked fine for the R100, by private enterprise.

The R101 was the state run attempt, badly managed.

[DTCwordfan]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-environment/porsche-begin-producing-synthetic-fuels-2022