Media Plonkers......

[ToraToraTora]

So the PM is on sky news talking about the migration issue, taking questions....what does the first plonker ask about? yep you guessed it, the 9 minute gathering for a slice of birthday cake! If I was his editor I'd fire him. You get a chance to ask the PM a question on the issue of the day and peace it up against the wall!

[ToraToraTora]

I'm just struggling with people who don't even appear to know what I lie is. Gromit can you answer this question: "Labour said they would win the last election, that was their intention, are they liars because the did not manage it?"

[youngmafbog]

Yes he lies, but honestly Gromit you cant apply every failing to a lie. TTT is correct when he asks if labour saying they will win the election is a lie. I note you have conveniently ignored that one.

[Gromit]

A manifesto is a pledge to do things to accomplish if the party is fortunate to win the election. The Conservatives never succeeded on the immigration pledge because their hands were tied. It was a lie because they knew their hands were tied and significant reductions would not be possible, but they said it anyway.

[youngmafbog]

To answer your points Gromit
//That clearly hasn’t worked because the problem hasn’t got any better.//
And that in part is because the civil servants wont action what Patel wants. In some cases they have actively gone against her. The other problem is the HRA that now we have let the EU and we have a massive Tory majority should be amended. That is not Patel to do that though is it?

//- We should scrap the failing UK Border Force.//
I agree.
//- Replace it with a Professional naval police.//
Agree, providing the powers are given to them.
//- Take responsibility for immigration off the failing Patel.
- Replace her with one of the ex-services MPs.//
And you honestly think they would get past the left wing civil service who have their own agenda not the one of the Government (of any colour).
//- More surveillance of the French end to stop the boats before they sail.//
Well yes, but even you must know we are limited on that. We cannot actively monitor the French soil, which is why we pay the French to do it. But they dont.
Unless you are suggesting we put troops on the beaches of Northern France?

[ToraToraTora]

so in gromitland an unfulfilled intention is a Lie! Better tell Captain H, he must be the biggest liar in history!

[THECORBYLOON]

In Cameron's 2010 “Contract between the Conservative Party and you” he wrote,

“If you elect a Conservative government on 6 May, we will:
1. ...
2. ...
3. ...
4. ...
5. Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s – meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour.”

There is a difference between "will" and "shall" which express either an obligation or an intention depending on to whom or what it refers and it crops up in disputes as to the intended meanings in contracts.

"I, we (first person) … will (OBLIGATION) … shall (FUTURE INTENTION)
You, he, she, it, they, the Party (second or third person) … will (FUTURE INTENTION) … shall (OBLIGATION)" [emphasis added]

As Cameron used, "we will", that was an obligation.

If it was claimed the Labour Party would win the election, that was a future intention.

[ToraToraTora]

gromit: "A manifesto is a pledge to do things to accomplish if the party is fortunate to win the election. The Conservatives never succeeded on the immigration pledge because their hands were tied. It was a lie because they knew their hands were tied and significant reductions would not be possible, but they said it anyway. " - well perhaps they had ideas to un"tie" their hands are you saying that no prospective government should pledge to do things that do not have entirely obvious paths to a solution? When Clement Atlee pledged his intention to set up the NHS it was hailed by many as impossible etc, if he had failed would he have been a "liar" in Gromitspeak? Think it through me old china.

[Canary42]

Poor old TTT, he's so distressed at his idol's lawbreaking, he clutches at any straw available.

[ToraToraTora]

so canary is similarly inflicted!

[fender62]

i think the idea is that, would be dinghy floaters will change there minds and not want to come here, less they get sent to rwanda.
will it work erm probably not, worth a try is it stop a few chancers though, as for the thousands already here.. no idea.

[aelmpvw]

doesn't matter what question you ask a politician, you won't get a straight answer

[youngmafbog]

Possibly not, but unless you ask you wont know.

[Gromit]

You seem to be saying don’t believe Johnson because all he spouts is hot air and no commitment to deliver.

We should ignore the manifesto, the Queens’ Speech, the conference speeches, the autumn statements and press conferences and briefings, because everything that comes out of his mouth is an aspiration, a wish list rather than a proper plan with a promise to deliver.

[Peter Pedant]

//if he had failed (NHS) would he have been a "liar" in Gromitspeak? Think it through me old china.//

well devalutation in 1967 Callaghan said we "have devalued 15% but that does not mean that the pound in your pocket has been devalued"

to howls of disbelief....
so you say the dear old fellow was telling the troof? - - righto!

[ToraToraTora]

gromit: ".....because everything that comes out of his mouth is an aspiration, a wish list rather than a proper plan with a promise to deliver. " - well that is essentially what a manifesto is.

[Gromit]

Your sycophancy really is vomit inducing :-(

[ToraToraTora]

well it may appear like that to you but I'm just shocked that you don't know what words like "lie" and "manifesto" mean.

[dannyk13]

TTT, you know very well that Gromit only spouts what suits his own agenda.

[William51]

You are correct Tora, but will his editor fire him, no because it sells newspapers. This PM has has more issues to deal with than anyone since the last world war. He is doing a good job and i hope he stays firm and continues to govern as the man for the moment,

[bednobs]

"TTT, you know very well that Gromit only spouts what suits his own agenda"
dont most people, including you and TTT