Abortion, The Us And Islam

[Paigntonian]

Curious that most Islamic countries maintain the same legal fiction that abortions should be available only when the life of the mother is at risk. This is the same definition provided by our '67 abortion act and which everybody knows effectively leads to abortion on demand within the limitation of the 'lifetime' of the pregnancy. This is NOT a pro or anti-abortion rights remark. I just find it odd that Muslim regimes - and those countries like Turkey that are secular but have a majority Muslim population - might, from a Western perspective, to have a harsher regimen in regard to abortion and the law. Again, this is NOT about a woman's right to choose.

[MartinWasp]

I would go to France, if I were pregnant. I am at risk now.

[sp1814]

Where did you get that info?

Which countries are you referring to? I ask because there are so many ‘flavours’ of Islam and each sect follows a different interpretation of the Koran.

Also - I’ve found this (sorry - it’s a bit long-winded):

Most scholars agreed abortions were allowed if pregnancies ended before ensoulment of the fetus, described as occurring between 40, 90 or 120 days after conception, depending on the school of thought.

Usually, a justifiable reason is needed for terminating a pregnancy, e.g. to protect a breastfeeding child, socio-economic concerns or health reasons.

Four main positions on abortion prior to ensoulment currently exist across these schools of thought: i) abortion is allowed, ii) abortion is allowed under certain circumstances, iii) abortion is disapproved of and iv) abortion is forbidden.

Support for abortion and the belief that life begins at ensoulment is based primarily on the following Qur’anic verse, which discusses the different stages (semen, blood clot, bones and flesh) of fetal development

That’s from a paper ‘Abortion and Islam: Policies and Practice in the Middle East and North Africa’:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1016/S0968-8080%2806%2929279-6

[bednobs]

is this news? Is there a news story to go along with it paingtonian?

[Zacs-Master]

From Wiki:
‘in 18 out of 47 Muslim-majority countries, including Iraq, Egypt and Indonesia, abortion is only legally permitted if the life of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy while 10 countries provide it on request. No Muslim-majority country bans abortion in the case of the mother's life being at risk’

18 out of 47 isn’t ‘most’.

‘Abortion has been legal in Turkey since 1983, allowing women to terminate a pregnancy during the first 10 weeks of gestation. Thereafter, a legal abortion is permitted only to save the life or health of the pregnant woman and in cases of foetal impairment’

I think you might need a new source.

[sp1814]

Paigntonian

Looks like there’s some conflict here…which source did you get your stats from?

[Paigntonian]

bednobs: The abortion debate in the US is all over the news.

[Paigntonian]

zacs: There is nothing contradictory about your point and mine.

[Paigntonian]

sp; I am referring to exactly what I said. Most Muslim countries and secular governments whose citizens are majority Muslim.

[Paigntonian]

martinwasp: If you're a UK citizen why do you need to go to France?

[sp1814]

Paigntonian

I understand that Roe vs Wade is all over the news, but this thread is about ‘most’ Muslim countries - which isn’t.


So to clear things up - where did you read that most Islamic countries maintain the same legal fiction that abortions should be available only when the life of the mother is at risk.

I’ve not been able to find this information and per Zack-Master response, Wikipedia contradicts that statement.

[Gromit]

Sorry, your premise is wrong

// Islamic countries maintain the same legal fiction that abortions should be available only when the life of the mother is at risk. //

// Abortion in Turkey has been legal on request since May 27, 1983. Abortion is legal up to 10 weeks of pregnancy, and in special circumstances it can be extended if there is danger to the woman's life or the life of the fetus. //

What is your source, because it is clearly full of errors?

[Zacs-Master]

'There is nothing contradictory about your point and mine'

Apart from where you wrote 'MOST Islamic countries maintain the same legal fiction that abortions should be available only when the life of the mother is at risk'
And I pointed out that it was, in fact, 18 out of 47 countries?

If those facts are incorrect, please state your own source / findings.

[naomi24]

I'm not entirely sure what point the OP is trying to make but getting into the whys and wherefores of the Koran further muddies an already unclear issue. (Incidentally, the Koran doesn't mention abortion).

//Again, this is NOT about a woman's right to choose.//

What is it about then? A government's right to block?

[sp1814]

Paigntonian

Looking at the responses, it looks like you have a roomful of people all saying "Huh?"

[sp1814]

naomi24

The reason I mention the Koran is because in many predominantly Muslim regions, civil law regarding abortion rights is based on the Koranic concept of ensoulment - and foetal development.

[naomi24]

Indeed, SP - and similarly in some areas of Christianity - but in that case it's still widely considered that life and a right to life begins at conception. I believe the OP agrees with that which is what I think this is all about. I just wish he'd cut to the chase and say what he means.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Indeed - and in some religious teachings life begins before[i conception - which means that contraception is a no-no (except the rhythm method).

In these teachings, life isn't just life - it's the [i]potential] for life.