'They' Is Irritating Me Immensely

[barry1010]

Police appeal for missing person shows a photo of a 25 year old 'manly' man named Alec. Police say they need to know that 'they' are okay.

One man is missing. Stop mangling language 😡

[jourdain2]

Sorry, brainiac (been out to lunch) got it wrong way round it is 'la prostate' and 'le vagine' = anything likeable was masculine and unwelcome was feminine.  It's a sexist language.  E.g. my GP was 'Madam le docteur'.  They've been objecting - but the complications are so enormous that shoulders have been shrugged in huge amounts!

Ca marche!

[bednobs]

i agree with j on this point "Anyone who finds it a problem is being rather 'precious' and neurotic i.m.o." (sorry barry!)

[barry1010]

I just find it confusing when 'they' and 'them' is used to refer to a singular, identified person.  When I am referring to a gender neutral/non-binary person I always use the name which is a bit of a mouthful but is clear.  'John's on the phone, John can't come to the party'.  If I'm told, 'John's on the phone, they can't come to the party' it's not clear who exactly can't come - John or John and others.  If John were referring to a different John I would add the surname for clarification.

 

[Khandro]

A tiny minority of queers have managed to get themselves into postions of influence and power and are having a field day and enjoying it.

The more it winds you up the more they love it. Don't fall for it.

[Old_Geezer]

I don't see having feminine and masculine titles as sexist or 2nd rate. The only reason I can see that some women started using masculine titles on the early days of "Women's Lib" has to be a feeling of shame at being identified as a woman and a wish to be misidentified as a man. To this day as well !

[New Judge]

"But why have actors/actresses etc now been given the male gender?"

“But my point was they are now being called by what was the male version of the word ( actor, sculptor) implying that the male is more important”

It’s not a question of importance or precedence. There was never any need to create a female version of “actor”, “waiter” etc. There was no more need for it than there would be to have, say, a “farmeress”, a “stockbrokeress” or a “mechanicess”. So simply reverting to the job name which can, and should have been applied to everybody doing that work is the right thing to do.

"Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Could you please let them know where they can get it?"

You have to read what goes with it:

“….is a gender-neutral third-person pronoun. It typically occurs with an indeterminate antecedent, in sentences”

Someone “declaring their preferred pronouns” as “them/they” etc. is not doing so because there is an indeterminate antecedent. They are doing so because, in their opinion, their gender does not match their biological sex or they wish to offer no opinion at all on their gender. That’s their privilege.

In the case of “Alec” which started all this off, Alec is a man’s name, a photograph of Alec portrays the appearance of a man and so, with no information to the contrary, it is overwhelmingly likely (round about 200-1) that Alec, if he has an opinion at all, is of the male gender. So I would suggest that the first thing to do when Alec is found, is to ensure he is safe and well. Then he might need some food and drink and possibly a hot bath. Only then might he be asked about his “preferred pronouns” and until then it is perfectly reasonable to use “him/he/his.” To do anything else is simply daft.

[Old_Geezer]

There was never any need to avoid matching male and female versions either. The way English went was to have both, until some chose to be contrary.

[Ellipsis]

> and so, with no information to the contrary

How do you know there is no information to the contrary? Why do you even assume that?

Other missing persons are referred to as "he" and "his" by the police. Alec's name is known, Alec's name is known, and Alec is referred to as "they". Why do you think that is?

[Ellipsis]

Alec's name is known, Alec's age* is known ...

[New Judge]

"Alec's name is known, Alec's name is known, and Alec is referred to as "they". Why do you think that is?"

Because the police have been infiltrated with the same sort of ridiculous claptrap as the NHS.

A while ago I was seeking treatment on the NHS for a dodgy knee (before I finally gave up and went private). When providing my details to a hospital clinic I was asked whether I was or might be planning to get pregnant. I answered "You must be joking - with these knees?".

I briefly saw the hilarious side of her question. I was also quite proud of my riposte as I have to say, I've never been asked that question before and was not at all prepared for it. Were it not for me gloating over my wit I might have been more forthright. The lady (at least, she looked like a lady) with the clipboard, needless to say, was having none of it. 

I am clearly male (as recorded on my health records) and - just in case she suspected I might be a balding woman with a moustache, masquerading as a man - I am also well over the normal age of child bearing (as also recorded on my health records). I think she realised she may be on a loser if she peristed and her poker face simply glared at me as she struck a vicious stroke with her pen on the form she was filling in. I imagine I've been recorded as a subversive or fifth columnist, intent on destroying the progressive ambitions of "the envy of the world". Never mind. 

The explanation for that experience goes a long way to explain why the police might be referring to Alec as "they".

[Ellipsis]

> Because the police have been infiltrated 

I gave you two recent links with men using he/his, so I don't know why you'd mention the NHS - a total non sequitur. The police says he/him when that's appropriate. But with missing persons, they're often dealing with vulnerable people. The truth is as I said at 10:01 this morning - The police obviously knows Alec's name and preferred pronouns. And you don't, and make wrong assumptions.

[New Judge]

"The police obviously knows Alec's name and preferred pronouns. And you don't, and make wrong assumptions."

Sorry, but when they are looking for missing persons they need all the help they can get. They are less likely to get that when they start messing about with pronouns when referring to a man.

I introduced the NHS because you asked for an explanation of the action of the police. The same claptrap has enveloped them as has enveloped the NHS. In common with many large public organisations they have succomed to a ridiculous mantra which is appropriate to less than one in 200 people.

There is absolutely no reason to refer to Alec as "they" any more than there was to ask me if I ws pregnant.

[Ellipsis]

You think you know better than the police and Alec's friends and family how Alec should be referred. You're wrong. For all you know, calling Alec "him" could be the final thing that topped himself. He's already missing after all ...

[Khandro]

The German language has this all sorted out by the simple expedient of adding the suffix, 'in' to the male. A male doctor is an Artz  & the a female doctor is an Ärztin. A teacher is a Lehrer & a woman teached is a  Lehrerin.  Of my neighbours; he is my Nachbar & she is my Nachbarin.

This avoids the dilemma you can face in English when your son emails to say, " I shall be bringing a friend for the weekend " & you don't know what to expect.

In German he would have to say he was bringing either a Freund (male friend) or a Freundin (female friend).

If he had said I'm bringing a person who doesn't know what sex they are I'd have said,  **** *** !  🙄  

 

[brainiac]

That's obviously a big help for someone who doesn't know their Arzt from their Elbow

[New Judge]

"You think you know better than the police and Alec's friends and family how Alec should be referred."

You don't know that the police have referred to him as "they" based on information they have, or whether they have done so out of some misplaced ideology. And neither do I. I simply have a preference for one over the other.

[Ellipsis]

Barry said that his complaint was with the West Midlands Police. I looked at their website and reviewed how the referenced people of all sexes. Generally they refer to people as "he" or "she". I gave a link. So if the West Midlands Police is using "they" for Alec, then there's a reason for that ...

[Untitled]

nobody cares if "they" annoys you. you're just going to have to lump it.