Single Justice Procedure Notice

[sunflower68]

My son has had his second of the above, both for 2 separate speeding fines...filled in 1st and he was charged £700 and 4 points. He is contesting this as he opted for course but filled in wrong payment part. Now this again saying second fine he failed to book the course 

We work together and his mail still comes to my house- I would have passed on all this information to him and helped as he hates forms!! 

He has done all he was meant to do. Now its happened again what should he do as it's going to look like he's lying....so unfair.

 

 

[douglas9401]

Probably pay the fines, slow down and fill out forms properly would be the answers.

[curlyfries81]

How old is your son? I wouldn't want to pay his car insurance.

My better half works with a chap who is 28 with years and years of no claims and he's paying £180 per month for his insurance.

Surely your son's speeding will just make his insurance go through the roof?

[New Judge]

To answer this properly (i.e. explain why it might have happened) I would need to know exacly what he received, when he received it and how he responded.

However, one thing you can answer:

"He is contesting this as he opted for course but filled in wrong payment part."

How is he contesting this? His only realistic roue is by way of an appeal o the Crown Court.

However, there's no real need for a "drains up" with the second one. He is where he is: that is, he has a SJPN to respond to. He should note that once a case has proceeded to court action (for whatever reason) any "out-of-court" disposals (a course or fixed penalty) are no longer available.

The best he can hope for is that the court sees fit to sentence him at the fixed penalty level (£100 and 3 points). They have  guidance  which suggests they might do this when things such as administrative problems have caused the matter to go to court (provided he speed is within the thresholds for which a fixed penalty would be offered). The court has no power to order a course.

It is imporant to realise that when the police offer a course or fixed penalty, all the reqirements of that offer must be complied with. The only option for the police if they are not is to take court proceedings. Speeding offences are not like parking tickets. 

[nicebloke1]

He is contesting this?

Filled in the wrong payment part?

I've not long had a speeding fine. A 40mph road had a 400 / 500 yard stretch changed to 30mph, I got caught by camera doing 36mph, tuff :0( First notification of intend to proceed against driver hence requesting who was driving ( me) 28 days given to reply. Next notice I  got was an option of a course or £100 plus 3 points. You have 28 days to reply to this notice. ( There is NO payment part to fill in on this notice, you imform them of what option you care to have, if you choose £100 and 3 points you will be told how and when to pay up, OR, you have 28days to book the course. So to conclude, no payment part to fill in, in my case?

[New Judge]

"So to conclude, no payment part to fill in, in my case?"

Dead right, nb.

You don't pay for the course when responding to the course offer. One of the reasons for that is that the driver can choose which course provider he prefers and they all charge slightly different fees.

The single biggest reason why cases end up in court is when a driver accepts the offer of a fixed penalty. The requirement is that he must pay £100 and submit his driving licence details. Many don't do that., usually because they have already done so when identifying themselves as the driver, so think it's unnecessary. It is necessary and so they end up facing court proceedings.

I don't quite understand how sunflower's son "filled in the wrong payment part" but it doesn't matter. He has been sentenced (presumably in accordance with the normal sentencing guidelines) and that's that. The only way to appeal is by way of an appeal to the Crown Court and this must be lodged within 21 days of the conviction. Quite what basis he might make that appeal is unclear as details are somewhat lacking.

Sunflower's son might like to know that the last time I looked (which was a few years ago) the amount of costs imposed for a failed appeal in the Crown Court was £1,350. 

[nicebloke1]

My latest notification from West Mercia police is addmittance of being the driver, should I accept option (2) of which is a conditional offer of a £100 fine and three points, its states that I should let them know. At the very bottom, within option 2 it states, ( IMPORTANT DO NOT SEND PAYMENT OR LICENCE AT THIS STAGE. I believe thats because they already have my details from DVLA / and reg of my car being the owner. Plus I provided the details online with the first notice of prosecution addmitting to being the driver at the said time of the camera shot. If you dont follow the instructions to the letter you just end up in more expensive trouble.

[New Judge]

"If you dont follow the instructions to the letter you just end up in more expensive trouble."

Indeed, nb. At some stage you will be asked to submit your licence details. You should not be asked to actually send your licence. That requirement was disconinued about eight or nine years ago. I believe some police forces are still insisting on the licence being physically sent. If they refuse to process a fixed penalty because he driver fails to do so, they are acting unlawfully (so long as he has submitted his licence details after making payment).

I strongly suspect in sunflower's son's first case, some error in accepting the course was made ("...as he opted for course but filled in wrong payment part).

The second one is more difficult to determine. It touches on some documents possibly not having been received but without the details I mentioned in my earlier post, it is impossible to say for sure what has happened.

[nicebloke1]

Just for interest purposes. The option 1, ( the course) states that you have 28days from the date of this document to book and pay for the course, AND the course must be completed within 4 months from the date of the offence, the latter could catch a few out. The course can now be done online with a four hour duration. Not sure what would happen if you booked and paid for the course but then failed to complete, i would guess option 2 would be implimented straight away losing the course cost, as it states in the document its not possible to rearrange. In other words dont mess us about. :0)

[Peter Pedant]

Probably pay the fines, slow down and fill out forms properly would be the answers.

no one likes forms and you have to fill them out  = waggle any new form in his face and say " the last time you screwed this, it cost £700"

[Peter Pedant]

ou don't pay for the course when responding to the course offer. One of the reasons for that is that the driver can choose which course provider he prefers and they all charge slightly different fees.

I got that and had to read it four or five times. You conclude a contract with the remediation firm and then I asked myself how they communnicate completion  with the authorities - It tells you somewhere - but you have to turn up AND complete. and there is a time limit. Is the time limit the date of payment or the date of completion? It tells you somewhere

lots of paper and payment and fees. I had to put up with being shouted at for three hours. Apparently it er makes you drive slower. Luckily my employer is another shouter.

shouter was a ex trafffic cop

[nicebloke1]

PP, and don't trust the post to deliver your replies to any such documents, all can be done on line now becsuse you are given a pin number to access  your case number in turn they give you a ref number to any online reply from them. To be sure you could post your document reply and do it online.

[Peter Pedant]

I think the shoutsy woutsy was to elicit more shouting BUT his decision about completion was final.... so I looked mute

so he explained half  way thro

and I thought " its his course and he can shout if he wants to"

and yes there was STILL some gormless teen ageer who pouted " I dont know why I am here: I wasnt the one who speeded"   durrrrr

 

[nicebloke1]

Council might decide soon to make it 40 uphill 30 downhill but sometimes 20 at the bottom of the hill or no more than 25 and a bit, the bit will be decided by the Horizon camera tec.:0)

[sunflower68]

Thanks all for your replies. I don't think his insurance cost is the worry atm but I do wonder why this is such a tough punishment just for an error filling in a form.... Twice!!

 

36 mph in a 30 twice in 2 months -yes he learnt his lesson as we all have haven't we.  However I would expect 3 points and a course -  not 8 points and a almost 2k fine (probably) for simply silly admin errors.

Like it has been said here I watch boy racers almost killl people on a daily basis, not a hard working lad just trying to get by. So unfair. Maybe he can claim he is traumatised I am sure that will get him off. 

 

[New Judge]

"However I would expect 3 points and a course -  not 8 points and a almost 2k fine (probably) for simply silly admin errors."

He should not get four points for 36mph in a 30 limit. Four points are not applicable until 41mph. Are you sure it was 36mph?

As far as the fine goes, provided he pleaded guilty he should have been fined a third of a week's net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and costs of around £90 (again, assuming it was no more than 40mph). So to get to a total of £700 the court must have been told he had a net income of around £1,300 per week.

If it genuinely was 36mph in a 30mph limit he has a good case to appeal against his sentence just on the basis of the points alone. The fine also seems excessive unless he is earning around £90,000 a year before tax.

As nicebloke says, it is very important to deal with all the correspondence connected with these things correctly as getting it wrong can be very expensive.

[nicebloke1]

His first offence of 36mph in a 30  would have almost certainly given him the chance to take the course, but if he delayed getting the paperwork back excepting the offer of the course before getting the second speeding charge, ( 2 charges in 2 months) According to the paper work i have first offence you are almost always give the choice of the course providing that your speed was not completely silly and dangerous. 36mph in a 30 is a standard fine of £100 & 3points. The fines your son has just don't add. Was his second offence for speeding excessive (ie) excessive speed or dangerous because the heavy fine indicates such?

[sunflower68]

Hi nice bloke.

First one was 41 in a 30 for which he now has 4 points, 417 fine, 90 costs and 167 victim surcharge. Second, pending, 36 in a 30.

He earns 650 per week he never asked for a payment plan. 

[nicebloke1]

So he he decided to go to court for the first offence? is that what your saying?

[nicebloke1]

I'll leave the rest to NJ as its now out of my depth. I was just going on my first speeding naughty of 3 weeks ago.