How do you end up like these two monsters and how do we stop it?

[noxlumos]

Just read this heatbreaking report into the torture and murder of a little baby at the hands of his step father and mother. They have been sentenced fairly stiffly by current standards but how do people end up like that and how do we stop it happening?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/15122006/344/mother-j ailed-baby-s-death.html

[Bazile]

No need to apologise enigma - my mistake

Lets hope we hear from an americam Aber or indeed from any other country

[lindapinda]

I accept your point Enigma..babies are born innocent.However...if you take Nox as an example,he was abused as a child but quite obviously has not let that affect how he treats and feels protective of children now.

[enigma]

Yes , granted Lindapinda , however more often than not , the victim of abuse can often can on to become the abuser and history repeats itself. It is marvellous for those who have overcome abuse and been able to recover from their experiences without allowing it to manifest in later life , however for many , this is sadly not the case.

[lindapinda]

I do realise where you're coming from here Enigma honestly...!..But could it not be the case that where there are people determined to help and protect children,by the opposite case..there are those,who will try to never vote republican..but who have access colleges!!

[Eve]

I've read about the problems with crystal meth coming over from the states and the horrifying toll it's having there on children, the so called meth orphans...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/11/national/11m eth.html?ex=1278734400&en=aba0680fe2a307e1&ei= 5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

It's a horrible and hearbreaking thinking of those poor helpless children.

[noxlumos]

I think childhood abuse takes you one way or the other. It normalised violence to me in the way I dealt with the outside world, but it made me more careful as a parent. I don't even raise my voice to my kids but it is statistically true that the abused are often the next generation of abusers. That being said my father came out of nowhere, his parents were the warmest, nicest, most nurturing people, so there is an element of later environment somewhere that must affect people and in my particular case my mother orchestrated what happened to me, he was the ideal husband and father to the rest of the family.
This girl when she is released, I'm mulling over in my mind, if she takes advantage of her time in prison, gets some more qualifications etc, gets a good job on her release, meets someone decent one day. Can she be an effective mother ever? Will her experience with this poor little boy actually make her next child more precious to her, or will this pervading feeling that her child was clearly expendable to her continue. This is swimming round my head at the moment and I'm wondering if any sort of rehabilitation is possible for her because she's almost bound at some point in her life to have another child and my desire to protect her future children form what I percieve her to be is clashing horribly with my normal theory that given the right circumstances anyone can change for the better. The whole thing is just so horrible.

[joko]

he can't have been that controlling of her if she was out partying with her mates most of the time... a contolling freak surely would not have allowed that...

and surely if she was that scared of him she would have stayed home and kept her eye on the baby at the very least. even if she wasn't going to stop him, she would have surely at least been on hand to assist, should this man go to far - even if only to call an ambulance or give first aid.

no, i don't think we can say this woman was too scared of him and timid to do anything - i think she just didn't care.

[Le Chat]

We have all expressed horror and revulsion at this sad story. As a mother I don't understand how her maternal feelings didn't seem to apply here. However, I also think that when I read of the thousands of baby girls left in orphanages, abandoned on the roadside or left to die in a bin somewhere in China. Maybe the maternal need to protect your offspring can be switched off ... if needs be. In China, the greater need is for a boy to provide for his parents in their old age .. in this case, the need is/was the greater need of this woman to either a)not "lose" her man, by standing up to him or b)child got in the way of her need to be out partying or both a and b. Either way, I hope they both rot!

[China Doll]

Hi Nox,

What a horrific story. And without going down that whole 'I understand your pain' route I think I can see why (bearing in mind the past you have talked about previously) this story has had such an effect on you (and others who have suffered abuse).

How do people end up like that? I don't know. I don't think anyone is born evil but we can all commit evil acts. What stops us is the switch in our heads. Perhaps their switch was faulty (to say the least). I can't comprehend the agression, the anger, the jealousy that you must have inside to inflict that kind of hurt on to a child. I don't think you could look in to their past and say 'well, such and such happened which twisted them this way..' as it just doesn't work. Just becaues you may or may not have gone through horrors does not automatically mean that you then in turn subject someone else to them.

How do we stop it happening? Vigilance? It's hard, sometimes it's not obvious what is going on behind closed doors. Stiffer penalties won't help (no, not bleeding heart liberal sentiments, think they should be locked up for life, just pointing out that by the time stiffer penalties come the crime has already been committed).

Sometimes I think you should have a license to have kids. As said in parent hood... 'you need a license to catch a fish, but they'll let any old dumb fu*k be a parent' (or words to that effect.

This story just makes me sad.