Rights as next of kin

[Valrie]

My ex husband died a few weeks ago leaving his girlfriend as executor of his will. I believe she is a applying for probate. What I would like to know is my son's rights (he is 12 years old) as the next of kin? She has the paperwork for the plot at the cemetry and is going ahead and sorting out a headstone. During arrangements for the funeral she did not consult my son about what he wanted and is now putting words onto the headstone which he does not want. What are his rights with regards to this and the paperwork for the plot? Thanks

[dot.hawkes]

as executer i don't think her role involves the headstone at all, if your son is a beneficiary in the will probably you will be named as the person looking after his interest and inheritance until he is 18 +. Also, if it was only a few weeks ago then the headstone will be a while off being ready for putting on the grave anyway, and in that time your son should make it known his feelings to the executers, there will surely be more than one anyway, probably a solicitor, who told you she is the executor anyway?

[Valrie]

Thanks for your response Dot. She told me she is executor although she has still not proovided me with a copy of the will and is very reluctant to do so. I think she is doing the headstone because she was his girlfriend and not because she is the executor of the will but surely my son is his fathers next of kin and he should have the paperwork and rights to his dads plot and be able to say what goes on the headstone. The trouble I have is she thinks it is me talking when my son says he is upset - it is not - I don't care what goes on my ex husbands headstone but I do not want my son upsetting - losing his dad at such a young age is enough upset.

[bednobs]

why cant the girlfriend be the next of kin? When i moved in with my boyfriend he bacame my next of kin, rather than my parents. I would have thought your sons next of kin is you, and your ex husbands next of kin is his girlfriend. I personally dont think that a 12 year old child should have any responsiblities as regard to aranging a funeral, or rights to paperwork related to the plot. Sorry.

[Valrie]

My 12 year old son is his blood relation - only a blood relative can be classed as a next of kin legally. He did not want the responsibility of arranging the funeral - just some input as he wants with the headstone. This lady is obviously devastated by her boyfriend's death (I was pretty upset myself as I have known him 25 years as opposed to her 5 years) but in all fairness my son has lost his father and he cannot be replaced. This lady is 35 and I am sure, in time, she will find someone special and I hope she does. What will happen then to the paperwork for the plot - it should surely be with my son?

[innocenti]

I would get a solicitor on the case straight away. Your sons wishes should be respected. My OH and I have been together for 8 years and have children but I am not legally his Next Of Kin, if he were to die then his mother would be the NOK.

Your son has a strong case and you need to act fast, get a solicitor now.

[Goodsoulette]

How awful for your son, Valrie and yourself also! I personally feel it is very important that your son shoul;d have been consulted throughout the funeral process and that his input into the headstone would not have only been important top your son but to his father too.

I hope that you can all come to an amicable arrangement regarding this. Good luck x

[bednobs]

so my husband can't be my next of kin if i still have blood relations alive? That is just mental, and surely cant be right? That would mean if you were still married to him, and with no kids some randomer from his family could tell you what to do with his funeral and headstone? that cant be right (not that i am sayng your son is a randomer, just ploeaxed by your "next of kin has to legally be a blood relative" comment)
i also dont get what is important about having the paperwork for the grave plot ?

[bednobs]

by the way, i agree with what goodsoulette has just written too

[dot.hawkes]

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/go/livingtogether/ package_17.html

[bednobs]

thanks for clarifying that then dot. You ex husband probably considered his girlfriend his next of kin then, and therefore it seems your son dosent have any "rights" as set in law

[Valrie]

No your husband/wife can be your next of kin but a boyfriend/girlfirend would not be classed as this in the eyes of the law - stupid I know but this is the way it is. It is important to my son as he feels he should have the paperwork. At the moment the girlfriend is talking about being buried with his Dad and this is upsetting him as he thinks in time she will find someone else and move on with her life and be happy again. He hopes she does but he worries about what will happen with his Dad's grave and the rights to it when she does. Just wanting to clarify his rights as to what is put on the headstone as well. I am on holiday in Italy at the moment but had chance to log on so as it has been worrying my son I thought I would ask while I could - will read any further responses on Saturday when my sona nd I get home. Thanks to those who have taken the time to respond - much appreciated.

[innocenti]

That is a hell of a leap bedknobs. You dont know that the ex husband classed his girlfriend as his next of kin, for all you know she could have just been his Friday night leg over. We dont know if they lived together or if she is in his will.

[bednobs]

according to dots link, boyfriend/girlfriend can be classed as nok, if the person so nominates them.

i must be being really really thick, but what will having the paperwork on a grave plot acheive? The person who has paid for it would probably want a reciept, but surely having the paperwork donsent prevent or allow someone else to use the same plot? The plot is marked with a headstone, so all will know where it is

[bednobs]

well that is true. We dont know. I also wonder about the "legality" of having a 12 year old as next of kin ... surely if decisions have to be made it is better an adult makes them? If the ex husband was unconcious in hospital, would a 12 year old be expected to make decisions about treatment or lack of it/? would a 12 year old be expected to sort out someones affairs as next of kin? sort out the finances if he'd have died intestate? gather the death certificate and liaise with undertakers etc?
i wonder if next of kins have to be adults? - imagine the child in question was 5 ... would they be expected to be next of kin? Its an interesting debate, but one that i suppose isnt really helping valrie!

[Goodsoulette]

Although the girlfriend is grieving and grief does some strange things, I think her wishes to be buried with your ex should be disregarded at this point. Her wishes may well change as she gets older and settles with someone else. keep explaining to your son that she loved him too and not to be too upset by her actions. I think if she completely disregards your sons wishes regarding the headstone that you should help him think of a place that was special to him and his dad and find a way of marking that as a memorial. Maybe a tree and a plaque???

[dot.hawkes]

just to clarofy, in law, nearest relative is not the same as next of kin, nearest relative for ingeritance or medical has more standing than next of kin, which can be changed to fit circumstances

[themas]

Valrie - There is no legal definition of next of kin. The leaflet dot's link takes you to states the position quite well.

You, the girl friend & your son are all going through a traumatic time & it must be terribly difficult for you all. From what you say it seems to me the most important issue at present is what goes on the gravestone. Is there any independent person - say a friend of your ex's - who knows all three of you & who could try to mediate & reach an agreement on this? Alternatively - although much less satisfactory - there are local mediation services in many areas. Something like that would be far better in my view than getting confrontational or bringing solicitors into it.

[antiguru]

Firstly, I�m so sorry for your loss and that you have this additional stress in what may already be an really upsetting time.

The answer to your question (regardless of the debate that has gone before) actually hinges on whether or not a Will exists. If it does it will name an Executor and one or more Beneficiaries. Arranging the funeral is a responsibility of the Executor (although can be delegated). The Exec is not necessarily a Beneficiary. A Will will usually say what the deceased would like done with their body but it�s a little known fact that the Exec is free to disregard this instruction. Unless there are specific words for the headstone in the Will (this is unlikely), the Exec chooses.

If no Will exists, you�re in a different ballgame and incidentally one where your son does have more rights. If intestate, there is a strict order of who the law recognises. The girlfriend will not appear on this list. There�s some good stuff here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/RightsAndResponsib ilities/Death/index.htm

On the practical side, most headstones don�t go up for 6 months (the ground is still settling) so you have time to resolve this amicably.

I really hope that you�re able to do this. In the meantime, the CAB might be a good port of call.

Good luck.

[Valrie]

To everyone who has replied thanks. There is a will which she is refusing to give me a copy of (she is the executor) - despite the fact her solicitor has advised her too. I only want a copy because my son is a beneficiary and I want to make sure his best interests are looked after. I don't care what goes on the headstone from my point of view - my son does. She has 2 children aged 18 and 12 who are not my ex husbands, they have been together 5 years, did not live together but she looked after him at her house in his last few weeks when he was very ill. She wants to put on the headstone "Father of her eldest daughter, my son, her youngest daughter" and my son does not want this. I have tried to talk to her but she thinks it is me putting ideas into my son's head - it is not. I am sure it will work out in the end but have explained to my son it does not matter what is int he paper in the notices, or on the headstone that he was the most important thing in his Dad's life and that is all that matters. Again many thanks.