Thatcher

[brionon]

Did she sign the Maastricht agreement and,if so, did she hold a referendum ? This is NOT a rhetorical question so save your anger.

[Whickerman]

Yes she did, and no she didn't.

[Kathyan]

But she didn't promise one either!

[Whickerman]

Actually, i stand corrected - John Major was Prime Minister then, but still no referendum in the UK.

[4GS]

How could she sign it? She wan't PM when it was signed. You're thinking of John Major brionon:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-12461637.h tml

[New Judge]

There are a number of fundamental differences between the two sets of circumstances:

The Maastricht Treaty was nowhere near so far reaching in its provisions.

The Treaty of Lisbon commits member states to complete subjugation by everything other than in name. The individual provisions may seem innocuous, but there is a clause which says (in effect) that the EU becomes the supreme body and can enact further provisions (i.e. control) over member states as it sees fit without further agreement being necessary.

It introduces �qualified majority voting� which effectively means that if the majority of member states vote through measures which are not in the UK�s interests we cannot opt out of them.

The Treaty of Lisbon is irreversible by this or any future government. No legislation in the nation�s history has bound its successors.

In short, it will ultimately relegate the Westminster Parliament to the status of a parish council, and it will simply act under "devolved powers" from Brussels.

As I�ve said in other threads on this topic, the majority of people may well be happy with this. However, we should be asked, as we were promised and it is dishonest of the Government to hide behind the change of name.

[MrsT]

you can stop blaming me for that one! that was Major!

[jake-the-peg]

She signed the Single European Act - that established the modern EU

http://www.historiasiglo20.org/europe/acta.htm

In included social initiatives like the European Regional Development fund and paved the way to Maastrict and monetary union.

It was way further reaching than the current bill and no there was no referendum

[buildersmate]

Yes, Jake but there were opt-outs. I haven't seen many Euros in my change just yet - not this side of the Pas de Calais anyway. No opt-outs with Lisbon. One's nation is well and truly stuffed

[jake-the-peg]

Oh change the record

Every time there's an EU treaty we have the "End of civilisation as we know it"

Adopting the Euro was going to bring about financial cataclysm as I recall. But it's the dollar and not the Euro that's in the toilet.

The world is changing - sorry

Sitting in the middle of the road sucking your thumb clutching your teddy and wishing things were there way they used to be will only end up with you getting squashed.

[New Judge]

Beore you make light of the effects of introducing the Euro, jake, speak to a few Italians or Greeks.

Most people in those countries have seen their standard of living reduce enormously since they adopted the Euro. This has mainly been brought about because their economies were totally different to those of the "major players".

[jake-the-peg]

I think Italy's problems are slightly more to do with having Silvio Belusconi at the helm.

Surprisingly their economy has seen an upturn since he lost power!

As for Greece?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_greece
First lines:

Greece has managed to achieve a strong economy that is growing fast after the implementation of stabilization policies in recent years.

Where do you get your ideas from?

[New Judge]

They're not my ideas, jake, their the opinions of Greek and Italian people that I know. I also base my comments on the increasing costs of visiting those countries, which I do regularly.

I'm always a bit wary of Wikipedia. However, accepting their figure of inflation at 3.9%, you can probably quadruple that (as you can with the UK's) to get the true figure. They may be showing growth, but I would not call it particularly stable.