Elohim

[rockfordill]

I need a hebrew scholar - was studying story of Jacob and his successful struggle with an angel. He\ was renamed Israel and he named the place Peniel. Always assumed Peniel meant Face of God (for I have seen Elohim face to face) - Question does suffix -el always mean God and is it short for Elohim

He renamed Luz Bethel - House of God - Beth house - el short for Elohim I then spelled out Bethel in full as
Beth el ohim - said quickly that sounds very like Bethlehem
I would love to think that Bethlehem (the Christians home of the Son of God) really meant House of God instead of the traditional House of Bread - am I goung down a dead end with this or could Bethlehem/Bethelohim have another meaning

Any input would be appreciated - by the way I realise that Elohim is plural and that Jesus' words on the cross Eloi, Eloi are the vocative plural of Elohim (I think)

thanks

[Clanad]

You've asked some interesting and illuminating questions... let me try to address them is a relatively short space... (I am not, by the way, a Hebrew scholar).
Firstly, as I'm sure you know, Hebrew, historically is a Semitically derived language and shares some of it's derivation with other Semitic languages, such as Arabic and in it's Proto forms may be as much as 5,000 years old.. It was also one of the first languages to develop symbology by way of an alphabet to express ideas using symbols. Over it's history, it came to be Hebrew by way of descendancy from the Cannanites (to lengthy to discuss here).
Having said that as a basis from which to develop your answer... the word or appleation EL, was apparently, originally a Ugaritic term meaning god...
It had other important meanings by the time Hebrew was developed... such as false god, mighty, power, etc. In Hebrew, when referring to the unspeakable name of the God of Israel, it isalways used in a form nominated by linguists as construct. An example is El Emet (sometimes seens as El Emhet)... God of Truth (Ps: 31:5) as well as your example. It is most certainly not short for Elohim... Elohyim (properly) is the plural of Eloah (-im always pluralizes nouns in Hebrew).
By the way "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthaniI" as uttered by Yeshua on the Cross, is Aramaic in origin, (as noted by the text), related to Hebrew, of course, but Elohim (Eloha) does not derive from Eloi, according to Strong's. Check Strong's 1682, H430 and H433.
Contd.

[Clanad]

Contd.

Bethlehem, likewise, has been in existence for centuries preceding the Hebrew displacement of the Cannanites. It was derived from Beit Lahama, from Lahmo, the Chaldean god of fertility. The term has been transliterated, variously as Lachem referring to meat as well as Lehem which refers to bread. Hence the alternately used meanings of House of Bread or House of Meat. Point being, the alternate to which you appeal isn't supported. Shalom!... Sha'lu Shalom Yerushalayim!

[Clanad]

Addendeum

"Eloi, Eloi, Eloi lama sabachthani" which Yeshua uttered on the Cross, is Aramaic in origin (as explained in the text) and is derived form a totally different root word, 'elahh... (Strong's H426)... and as such is distantly related to El, as discussed... but is translated to English as "My God... etc."

[rockfordill]

Dear Clanad

What a helpful and scholarly reply - I feared I was vastly over simplifying the linguistics but I did enjoy exploring the trail that led my untutored thought to Bethelohim

By the way I had called the Hebrew University in London about a year ago and talked to a Biblical scholar and he it was who told me that Eloi was vocative plural of Elohim - and I accepted that as being correct. My reason for exploring that question at that time was that I had asked my self to which named God did Jesus pray Jahweh or Elohim and Eloi was the answer. The Elohim primarily of the first chapter of Genesis

Anyway many thanks Clanad - I will think on these things!