Body & Soul5 mins ago
How to tackle discipline in education?
I'm planning on doing research into effective ways to improve behavioural standards in schools and would like some feed back. In this day and age there is very little that a teacher can do to deter students from misbehaving which makes them powerless in the classroom.
What do people think of the following suggestions?
1. After school detentions: Most teachers stay behind after school for several hours working meaning that this would be easy to introduce and not put the teacher out greatly. It may frustrate parents if they have to collect their child after the detention but this would surely be a good thing as it would encourage parents to discipline their kids themselves.
2 Saturday morning detentions: This would be harder to organise as teachers would clearly be reluctant to come in on a Saturday morning, although bear in mind it would only require one or two teachers to be there and they could be paid extra for doing so. This really would frustrate students and give them a reason to behave.
3 Exercising detentions: Instead of just sitting in a classroom silently for an hour have misbehaving students jog and do exhausting physical exercises that they wont want to go through again.
4 Military style schools: Set up for serious offfenders who are consistently expelled from schools or guilty of violence and abuse. Students would be sent away to a boarding type school where they would wake up early and do everything for themselves cook, clean, wash their own clothes as well as learn. Depending on what they have done they could be sent away for a week, month or year only returning home at weekends and holidays (or possibly just holidays).
This would clearly be very difficult if not impossible to implement but what I really want to know, as with all of the above suggestions, is whether you would support them and whether you think they would work.
What do people think of the following suggestions?
1. After school detentions: Most teachers stay behind after school for several hours working meaning that this would be easy to introduce and not put the teacher out greatly. It may frustrate parents if they have to collect their child after the detention but this would surely be a good thing as it would encourage parents to discipline their kids themselves.
2 Saturday morning detentions: This would be harder to organise as teachers would clearly be reluctant to come in on a Saturday morning, although bear in mind it would only require one or two teachers to be there and they could be paid extra for doing so. This really would frustrate students and give them a reason to behave.
3 Exercising detentions: Instead of just sitting in a classroom silently for an hour have misbehaving students jog and do exhausting physical exercises that they wont want to go through again.
4 Military style schools: Set up for serious offfenders who are consistently expelled from schools or guilty of violence and abuse. Students would be sent away to a boarding type school where they would wake up early and do everything for themselves cook, clean, wash their own clothes as well as learn. Depending on what they have done they could be sent away for a week, month or year only returning home at weekends and holidays (or possibly just holidays).
This would clearly be very difficult if not impossible to implement but what I really want to know, as with all of the above suggestions, is whether you would support them and whether you think they would work.
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This is a subject that begs in depth research and intelligent discussion in as wide as possible an arena.
Without being a smarta*se I think there are basic issues that need to be built into your research, namely what we define as education / learning; where it takes place; who owns it; how it is assessed. These basics are going adrift at present , as we have a growing national habit of finding out and doing what we wnat - especially online - but still have schools organised on a quasi-military Prussian model that was good over 150 years ago, but is not good now.
There is a huge amount of disaffection among young people at secondary school expecially. This is not just teenage hormonal gruntiness. It is a real questionning of what the **** all this is about, especially if at the end of it all there's no guarantee you get a job.
In this context bad behaviour is not surprising.
Add to this dismal picture the growing number of badly disfunctional families - many secondary school teachers will confirm that they often deal with parents who have never grown up, so what chance so the kids have?
So sadly, in reality, the disciplinary measures you outline would all fail the group you need to target most, because as now, these parents do not back up school sanctions. So schools either get a ranting parent threatening violence, or a solicitor's letter threatening action, or the simple non-appearance of the child, if any sanctions ar imposed.
to be continued
Without being a smarta*se I think there are basic issues that need to be built into your research, namely what we define as education / learning; where it takes place; who owns it; how it is assessed. These basics are going adrift at present , as we have a growing national habit of finding out and doing what we wnat - especially online - but still have schools organised on a quasi-military Prussian model that was good over 150 years ago, but is not good now.
There is a huge amount of disaffection among young people at secondary school expecially. This is not just teenage hormonal gruntiness. It is a real questionning of what the **** all this is about, especially if at the end of it all there's no guarantee you get a job.
In this context bad behaviour is not surprising.
Add to this dismal picture the growing number of badly disfunctional families - many secondary school teachers will confirm that they often deal with parents who have never grown up, so what chance so the kids have?
So sadly, in reality, the disciplinary measures you outline would all fail the group you need to target most, because as now, these parents do not back up school sanctions. So schools either get a ranting parent threatening violence, or a solicitor's letter threatening action, or the simple non-appearance of the child, if any sanctions ar imposed.
to be continued
which mean that any sanctions would, as now, end up being applied to a group who CAN be made to follow them as opposed to the group who don't give one either way.
Which will further increase the disaffectedness of these pupils.
These are the ones who already see rewards such as trips being given to pupils with appalling behaviour - and who see teachers left (rightly or wrongly) to shrug their shoulders and walsk away when self same kids behave appallingly. So again, no real wonder that they are thoroughly Teed off.
And there are also the school leaders who are in perpetual denial about appalling behaviour in their schools - for example, by refusing to acknowledge an incident has occurred if it is not entered electronically on a database; or by insisting that bad behaviour is always a result of bad teaching, so should not be punished.
Can o' worms is this one, but should be opened and let wriggle. Would love to know the outcome of your research.
Which will further increase the disaffectedness of these pupils.
These are the ones who already see rewards such as trips being given to pupils with appalling behaviour - and who see teachers left (rightly or wrongly) to shrug their shoulders and walsk away when self same kids behave appallingly. So again, no real wonder that they are thoroughly Teed off.
And there are also the school leaders who are in perpetual denial about appalling behaviour in their schools - for example, by refusing to acknowledge an incident has occurred if it is not entered electronically on a database; or by insisting that bad behaviour is always a result of bad teaching, so should not be punished.
Can o' worms is this one, but should be opened and let wriggle. Would love to know the outcome of your research.
Sadly, in my experience, the picture Lil O'lady paints is an accurate one for many schools. Around a third of pupils will dor easonably well at school but teh rest will struggle to get emaningful qualifications. Despite all the efforts put into education a significant proportion of pupils don't see the purpose of education, are not interested in studinying/learning, learn little (many 14 year olds struggle with primary school maths and cannot write a simple sentence correctly, despite the efforts of teachers) and enjoy behaving badly 'cos it's not cool to conform. As for detentions, the wost offenders usually fail to turn up, leaving teachers with more paperwork and chasing up to do as they try to rearrange the detention.
-- answer removed --
After-school detentions are in place already, but many students fail to stay behind. Even some of the ones who do are either unruly or refuse to do anything. A Saturday detention is pretty much out of the question. Parents often go shopping then, and it may be their only day to buy new items of uniform and other school-related things, and the children often have to tag along anyway.
A strict, boot-type school for very unruly and aggressive children might be one answer, but restoring the power that teachers once had would go a long way to helping the situation. If we were rude or misbehaved, our parents were called in immediately. If it happened three times, the student was expelled, and because education is supposedly enforced by law, then the parents would have to prove that their children'd been placed within other schools, or were being home-taught in a respnsible manner. Lack of discipline and being over-indulged plays a big part in how a child behaves. Old-fashioned lessons in manners, respect - and good parenting - should be taught weekly, but even so, many parents today have no idea what their children are getting up to - and neither do they care. If I was to be a teacher, I'd try and win my classes over by using humour to make lessons interesting. Boredom accounts for a good percentage of children taking no interest in learning.
A strict, boot-type school for very unruly and aggressive children might be one answer, but restoring the power that teachers once had would go a long way to helping the situation. If we were rude or misbehaved, our parents were called in immediately. If it happened three times, the student was expelled, and because education is supposedly enforced by law, then the parents would have to prove that their children'd been placed within other schools, or were being home-taught in a respnsible manner. Lack of discipline and being over-indulged plays a big part in how a child behaves. Old-fashioned lessons in manners, respect - and good parenting - should be taught weekly, but even so, many parents today have no idea what their children are getting up to - and neither do they care. If I was to be a teacher, I'd try and win my classes over by using humour to make lessons interesting. Boredom accounts for a good percentage of children taking no interest in learning.
While we can all see things were different and possibly better in our youth, the fact of life as it is now remains, and this is what schools have to deal with.
For problem families school exists as free childcare to be used as and when it suits them. There is no value placed on qualifications as many of the families involved have not worked for over a generation. I have personally also witnessed better off families whose children will never work, for various reasons, and so the same problems in school occur - I do not belive lack of discipline is only seen at the poorer strata of society.
It is now against the law to touch or detain a child against their will or their parents will - and the awkward squad know it well. There are hearse-chasing solicitors who trawl looking for cases to bring against schools because they have a tendency to settle quickly to avoid bad publicity. And in addition, one has something like four years grace after you turn 16 to bring a legal-aid supported case, that happened when you were a minor.
Consequently, my point is that schools are only able to apply discipline to families who are willing to conform and make their children conform - the number of 'hard cases' (in every sense) makes the application of discipline increasingly pointless and leads to the very reasonable point 'if X doesn't have to then why should I?'.
If you find this hard to believe, go and sit in a classroom in the twilight zone of one of our noble comprehensives. It is absolutely run-of-the-mill to see teachers being screamed at, sworn at, threatened, children running round the room / in and out the room, resources deliberately destroyed, and children who do not misbehave being attacked by those who do. In some schools the twilight zone is small, in some schools it is the norm in most classes. I just wish I was exaggerating.
For problem families school exists as free childcare to be used as and when it suits them. There is no value placed on qualifications as many of the families involved have not worked for over a generation. I have personally also witnessed better off families whose children will never work, for various reasons, and so the same problems in school occur - I do not belive lack of discipline is only seen at the poorer strata of society.
It is now against the law to touch or detain a child against their will or their parents will - and the awkward squad know it well. There are hearse-chasing solicitors who trawl looking for cases to bring against schools because they have a tendency to settle quickly to avoid bad publicity. And in addition, one has something like four years grace after you turn 16 to bring a legal-aid supported case, that happened when you were a minor.
Consequently, my point is that schools are only able to apply discipline to families who are willing to conform and make their children conform - the number of 'hard cases' (in every sense) makes the application of discipline increasingly pointless and leads to the very reasonable point 'if X doesn't have to then why should I?'.
If you find this hard to believe, go and sit in a classroom in the twilight zone of one of our noble comprehensives. It is absolutely run-of-the-mill to see teachers being screamed at, sworn at, threatened, children running round the room / in and out the room, resources deliberately destroyed, and children who do not misbehave being attacked by those who do. In some schools the twilight zone is small, in some schools it is the norm in most classes. I just wish I was exaggerating.
First and foremost I would say that it is essential that whatever law (I assume the human rights act) prevents teachers from having any physical contact with students is amended or abolished. Teachers should clearly be able to remove disruptive pupils from their classrooms and not face prosecution unless they have actually been abusive.
The main point of this exercise is that I want to find something that the delinquents would genuinely fear and therefore give them reason to behave. Tamborine posted that my military boot camp proposal would not work as boot camps are fun. At present, from my understanding, such a place already exists, where the children are treated as being unfortunate and rewarded with going skiing and snowboarding. I know someone who works for such an institution. This obviously sends completely the wrong message and shows them that they will be rewarded for their awful behaviour. My vision is that it would be the opposite. Up at 6am and in bed by 9pm and run by ex army personnel who will take none of their crap. As I said previously they would be doing their own washing, cooking and cleaning. The point is that it should be an exhausting and demoralising experience. It would undoubtedly be expensive but do you think it would work because if it did it would be worth it. Also it should be enforced by law so that if a parent refuses to agree to it, or drop off their child at the agreed destination then the police will collect the child from the families home and issue the parents with a fine for wasting police time.
To be continued.
The main point of this exercise is that I want to find something that the delinquents would genuinely fear and therefore give them reason to behave. Tamborine posted that my military boot camp proposal would not work as boot camps are fun. At present, from my understanding, such a place already exists, where the children are treated as being unfortunate and rewarded with going skiing and snowboarding. I know someone who works for such an institution. This obviously sends completely the wrong message and shows them that they will be rewarded for their awful behaviour. My vision is that it would be the opposite. Up at 6am and in bed by 9pm and run by ex army personnel who will take none of their crap. As I said previously they would be doing their own washing, cooking and cleaning. The point is that it should be an exhausting and demoralising experience. It would undoubtedly be expensive but do you think it would work because if it did it would be worth it. Also it should be enforced by law so that if a parent refuses to agree to it, or drop off their child at the agreed destination then the police will collect the child from the families home and issue the parents with a fine for wasting police time.
To be continued.
Many of you have posted that the parents are the problem and I completely agree with this but that�s a separate issue and they are a wasted generation. If something isn�t done about the present then they will just turn out the same and I think one of the best ways to tackle that is to separate the child from the parent and have them learning in a very different and much harsher environment. Bear in mind that this would be something to threaten the students with whereas now no reason to behave exists.
I understand that this would be very difficult to introduce by law but I think that this is partly because all the political parties believe that such a move would be very unpopular. I think that the case is the opposite.
Thank you again everyone and keep leaving your opinions please!
I understand that this would be very difficult to introduce by law but I think that this is partly because all the political parties believe that such a move would be very unpopular. I think that the case is the opposite.
Thank you again everyone and keep leaving your opinions please!
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