Going through the rubbish

[coffers1]

Spoke to my girlfriend on the phone at midnight last night....she said that she had looked out of her bedroom window after hearing a rustling down by the bins....she saw the old lady from the flat upstairs going through my GF's rubbish bags....I asked her if she was sure and she was a 100% that she was...now apart from being incredibly creepy... is this illegal? 

[Lillabet]

If she takes items from the bins then this might well be theft. The definition of theft is dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intent to permanently deprive.

In english it is the taking (appropriation) of property (any item) which you are not planning to return. That property has to belong to someone else - and rubbish in your bin belongs to you until it is collected by the waste collection company whereupon it belongs to them. You have to be acting dishonestly at the time you commit the offence. Dishonesty has an everyday meaning.

If this lady does not think that there is anything wrong with taking from bins and that it is not illegal then there might be a difficulty in making a theft allegation stick. If having been told it is illegal and dishonest she does it again then your chances are increased.

In real terms there is a big difference between the homeless person who removes half eaten food from a bin for themselves and someone who takes financial documents such as bank statements which they can then use for identity theft purposes though legally there is no real difference at all. The former is more sad than anything else and the latter sinister.

If the bins are in your girlfriend's property then coming onto her land/garden etc to commit an offence would amount to criminal trespass. It could also take the theft offence and turn it into burglary (this is basically trespass with the intent to commit certain crimes including theft) Even if the bins are in a communal area then as long as your girlfrined's bin is clearly hers then the same rules apply - you just need to trespass with enough of your body to commit the crime for it to be burglary - an example would be smashing a shop window, reaching in and stealing. This is burglarly even though only your hand has gone onto their property.

[londondave]

she might look like a innocent old lady but in reality she is a high tec idedntity fraudster making hundreds of thousands of pounds for her retirement in Spain

[troymclure]

one persons rubbish is another persons gold....

[Oneeyedvic]

I think that in a lot of counties, putting your rubbish out the night before collection is illegal......

..certainly is in Northampton.

Would suggest that your gf invest in a shredder

[MargeB]

Oneyedvic, we're not allowed to suggest violence on this site, let alone to the elderly.

[landie]

If she wants it that badly why don't you post it through her letterbox?

[ursula62]

why not just ask her what she was looking for?

[BJJ]

lillabet knows her stuff except that a burglary cannot be committed unless a building (or part of a building) has been entered by a tresspasser. If the bin is in a private yard or garden then it is classed as an 'enclosed area' but if it is in a public area or a communal area (and if she is a neighbour then it's likely she would be allowed to be there) then there are no restrictions. To prove a theft in these circumstances would be very difficult, the neighbour would claim the items were being disposed of and therefore had no value etc. Also a solicitor would argue that when you throw an item away then you are relinquishing your ownership of it. I would be more concerned if she is taking documents about the obvious id theft etc. as mentioned by lillabet. Personally i would be informing the police even just for them to record the fact in case a deception crime or similar is noted later on.

[Lillabet]

Actually BJJ is almost absolutely right. By my flats the bins are in individual brick built sheds with half doors so that only you can unlock your door and get the bin out. As such they meet the requirements for being a building - reasonably permanent structure (houseboats and static caravans and sheds can count as buildings for the purposes of burglary - so the definition is quite wide) and that was in my head when I wrote my answer.

If the bins where your girlfriend lives are not in buildings then there could not be burglary. There could still be theft. The contents of the bins are her property until they become the waste collectors' property.

However if they are in a communal building then burglary is still a possibility. If someone has permission to enter a building and exceeds that permission then they can become a trespasser and therefore if they steal, a burglar. 2 examples (sorry - but I used to teach criminal law - I know it shows at times)

A person who works in a shop may have a key and permission to enter. If however he enters when the shop is closed in order to steal he has exceeded his permission and is committing burglary.

Also (this one is based on a case whose name I've forgotten) a man had a key to his parents house and was free to enter it. Whilst they were on holiday though he used his key to get in and then to take and sell some of their property such as the TV and video. This too was burglary.

How this links to your case is that the tenants could have the right to enter the communal area for the purposes of disposing of rubbish but it is likely that such taking of items would exceed the permission and so it could well be trespass. therefore possibly burglary.

I'll stop now....

[brooklyn77]

To add my two pence worth...

If the 'communal area' is open an has no restrictions (ie locks or codes) then it is accessible to the public so therefore burglary cannot be commited here. If it does have locks or codes and someone gained entry as a trespasser to the area then it would be burglary if they stole from the communal area. Unless they gained entry by deception. For example someone claiming to live there and someone allows them access as a result, then if they stole then this would be theft by deception.

Anyway another point to make is that even a car being broken in to can be used as an example of burglary if the owner can prove that he uses it to live in, ie: it has a degree of permanency, so if he can produce letters, clothes, personal items and someone can verify that he lives in the car all the time, then this can still be classed as burglary. Just for arguments sake.

Oh its so much fun...