Confederate flag symbol?

[snotneck]

What is the relevance of the Confederate flag as a modern symbol? Why is it popular?

[jno]

a symbol of regional pride, a refusal to accept defeat (one which happened quite a while ago); just sometimes it's used as a cover for racism, since the confederacy was fighting for the cause of slavery, or at any right for the right of individual states to use it.

[Theland1]

I thought the issue was States Rights, pure and simple, and that slavery was just the catalyst to inflame the situation?
Maybe I will be stood corrected, but is it not like us in the U.K. trying to resist the federalism of Europe, even if we might agree with individual laws coming out of Europe, the principle of a central legislature that overrules national governments is anaethema to many.

In our case, the flag of St George might be used in the same way as the Confederacy flag?

[EngTeach]

As a modern symbol in America, I believe it represents racism , hatred and ignorance. Though some who live in the South see it as a symbol of pride. I would imagine that an African-American, whether from the North or South would not be happy to see it flying or displayed anywhere.

It was popularized here in the late 70's early 80's by the TV show The Dukes of Hazzard. The Good 'Ol Boys had their car emblazened with it.

While the Civil war was about States Rights, the flying of that flag becomes entwined with the slavery/racism issue.

Sidenote: When my sister-in-law and her mother (from New Jersey) were visiting Sotuh Carolina a SC woman overheard them mention "Civil War" and the woman butted in and said (with full southern drawl) ,"Here we call it it The War of Northern Aggresion!!!

[DrFilth]

eng teach what an answer. if i was seen with a robertson golly badge on my jacket would you class me as a racist .

[Lynn_M]

Hey, Dr Filth, Even George Galloway has been called a racist (by Jeremy Paxman, for one).

[Davethedog]

Dr Filth - Its a matter of perception.

Even if your not a racist. You know that you would offend people by wearing one( and you do know it would otherwise you wouldn't have used it as an example) so it at least questions your morals about the issue.

This however is a two way street the use of the "N" word in popular culture is deemed acceptable but not by white people - Libralism gone mad it wouldn't happen with the "C" word

[EngTeach]

Hi All,

I just checked back on this thread... I was not familiar with Robertson Golly. After a quick Google I get what DrFilth is getting at. It is like the old Aunt Jemima bottles. These are stereotyped images of Blacks that are not accepted today. (At least not overtly)

I understand the importance of these items being preserved as part of the history of America. It is important to see the negative pieces of one's history as well as the positive. I hope it also shows how far we have come, though we a have looong way to go too.

Back to the flag... Displaying that flag to African Americans is equal to burning a cross or wearing the white sheet.
Displaying it in general would lead many, black and white, to come to certain conclusions about the person displaying it.

[Clanad]

Being the good school teacher that he is, EngTeach, given the opportunity would tell you that it's only been within the last decade or two that the racist view of the 'Stars 'n Bars' has become prevalent in our society. Before that, it was seen as what it probably is... an historical symbol of a time past... genteel ladies, frock coated men sipping mint juleps in the shade of the magnolia trees visiting with the returned Major of Cavalry of Virginia's 10th after the Battle of Chickamuga... Somehow, (and i understand parts of the mechanism) the flag and other historical do-dads have come to symbolize something dark and sinister.
Slavery was practised in the Northern States as well and many of the slave owners were black... but that was overcome as was our nation's prediliction for the sad and disastrous practise... following England, I might mention, by several years...

[jno]

there wasn't a lot of slavery in Britain, Clanad - but they played a major part in the slave trade to and from other countries, including of course America. It was that trade that was first made illegal, as I recall; slavery itself was abolished later, but it affected only some colonies, nto Britain itself.

As I understand it, black objections to the use of the confederate flag have grown only because racist whites have chosen to use it as a code for their beliefs. By the same token, flying the St George's Cross as a flag of England has only recently become respectable because for years it was used by extreme rightwingers to signify their beliefs. Fortunately it has now been reclaimed by the mainstream. Maybe something similar will happen to the confederate flag and the racists will look elsewhere for insignia.

[spudqueen]

I understand that 'rednecks' fly the confederate flag upside down Possibly to show their redneck roots?

Don't know what a redneck is? These jokes define a redneck
http://www.fortogden.com/foredneck.html

[DrFilth]

davethedog
Even if your not a racist. You know that you would offend people by wearing one( and you do know it would otherwise you wouldn't have used it as an example) so it at least questions your morals about the issue.

my mother was the caretaker at a multicultural support centre and she refused to sign the petition that was pushed under her nose .to make them stop producing these badges. some of the things that went on there and the books they
issued to young children . well people on here would never
believe it.


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i have the golly motorcyclist number 7 after the great barry

[Theland1]

jno talks a lot of sense.

[DrFilth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-103178 4/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel -pray-Allah.html

[snotneck]

Thank you all for your contributions. I am enlightened.

[Clanad]

Er... how does one fly the Confederate flag upside down?

http://witewillo.homestead.com/files/confedera te_flag.jpg

[jno]

by flying it in Australia, Clanad?

[snotneck]

eng-teach, who told you to call black people African- Americans?

[jno]

Eng-Teach is presumably not talking about black people in general but specifically about African-Americans, which is not the same thing. Black people in Britain (say) probably couldn't care less about the confederate flag or which way up it's flown; African-Americans know its history well.

[EngTeach]

Back again-

I realise that using the term "African-American" is strictly a US term. It is a widely accepted term here in the US. It is the latest of the PC brigade's attempt to change things for the better.

Many black comedians here will poke fun at themselves and the various terms used over the years from The "N" word to negro to coloured to black and now African American. My school is predominantly black, but not African American. Most of my students are Afro-Carribbean. Though they prefer West Indian. What's a white pereson to do?????

[angel1boxer2]

the flag is suposed to represent all of the confederate soldiers that fought in the war. so people from the south forget that we should be waving the flag to remember those who died in the war not as a sign of hate.