ChatterBank3 mins ago
Spying on Muslims
31 Answers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6353035/Anti-extremism-scheme-spying-on-muslims.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/anti-terrorism-strategy-spies-innocents
Is this to be condoned in a free country, or a necessity taking into account the present situation?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/anti-terrorism-strategy-spies-innocents
Is this to be condoned in a free country, or a necessity taking into account the present situation?
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"No, not necessarily. But it was understandable due to the nature of the threat. And what was the alternative at the time? Nothing, it was all they could do. Well, I suppose they could have done nothing at all but I suggest that this would not have been the wisest move by our security services do you?"
But it didn't work (as you admit). You can't praise the pragmatism/realism of something and then admit that the policy you're basing your argument on didn't work - the whole point of pragmatism in politics is doing what works.
Why do you talk about 'doing nothing'? Do you think the police are just sitting on their hands? As far as I'm aware, they've discovered and broken numerous plots in the past few years largely by old-fashioned police work. It's not an alternative between spying and doing nothing.
And forgive me if this is wrong, but I get the distinct impression from your post that you're implying that police don't allready target Muslims or those in the 'profile' you describe, and that this policy will change that. Which is also untrue.
I'm all in favour of being realistic and practical against terrorism. But as you've identified the problem of the Muslim community not rooting out its extremists/suspected terrorists (I have to confess I'm not entirely sure of the exact extent to which that is true, so I'm taking your word for it), I'd suggest that alienating them even further likely won't solve it.
But it didn't work (as you admit). You can't praise the pragmatism/realism of something and then admit that the policy you're basing your argument on didn't work - the whole point of pragmatism in politics is doing what works.
Why do you talk about 'doing nothing'? Do you think the police are just sitting on their hands? As far as I'm aware, they've discovered and broken numerous plots in the past few years largely by old-fashioned police work. It's not an alternative between spying and doing nothing.
And forgive me if this is wrong, but I get the distinct impression from your post that you're implying that police don't allready target Muslims or those in the 'profile' you describe, and that this policy will change that. Which is also untrue.
I'm all in favour of being realistic and practical against terrorism. But as you've identified the problem of the Muslim community not rooting out its extremists/suspected terrorists (I have to confess I'm not entirely sure of the exact extent to which that is true, so I'm taking your word for it), I'd suggest that alienating them even further likely won't solve it.
TCL-MUMPING
"the sad fact is that in this terrorist threat situation, all Muslims are suspect."
Using that logic, all men are suspect paedophiles and rapists.
Since it has been reported recently men are not the only sex that can be paedophiles, and since we must assume that only men are rapists then your assumptions are only a dodgy 50% right.
Taking this on board until an identity can be placed on a particularly member of a sex, then yes all persons of that sex are suspect.
Perhaps the Muslims should consider themselves lucky only to be spied upon, during the 2nd World War all Germans, Italians and Japanese were interned.
"the sad fact is that in this terrorist threat situation, all Muslims are suspect."
Using that logic, all men are suspect paedophiles and rapists.
Since it has been reported recently men are not the only sex that can be paedophiles, and since we must assume that only men are rapists then your assumptions are only a dodgy 50% right.
Taking this on board until an identity can be placed on a particularly member of a sex, then yes all persons of that sex are suspect.
Perhaps the Muslims should consider themselves lucky only to be spied upon, during the 2nd World War all Germans, Italians and Japanese were interned.
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In reference to your 2 questions birdie, both of which I have asked myself and others in the past, for the life of me I can never understand why people struggle with the fact - and it is a fact - that both answers are Muslim Men.
Why is that so/too difficult?
On my summer holiday this year we went to Kefalonia, and airport security was an absolute nightmare. We, dad (late 30s), mum (mid 30s), daughter (5) and son (8 months), were pretty rigorously searched - I even had to tear open a sealed carton of baby milk and take a swig from it.
Now, are a family of four off for a two week break to Greece really likely to blow-up a plane? Really?
I personally don't see what's wrong singling out those more likely!
But that is racist I hear those of a Guardian disposition nasally whining - but they'd be wrong. If it has been reported that a dog has bitten somebody, you wouldn't start looking for cats.
Why is that so/too difficult?
On my summer holiday this year we went to Kefalonia, and airport security was an absolute nightmare. We, dad (late 30s), mum (mid 30s), daughter (5) and son (8 months), were pretty rigorously searched - I even had to tear open a sealed carton of baby milk and take a swig from it.
Now, are a family of four off for a two week break to Greece really likely to blow-up a plane? Really?
I personally don't see what's wrong singling out those more likely!
But that is racist I hear those of a Guardian disposition nasally whining - but they'd be wrong. If it has been reported that a dog has bitten somebody, you wouldn't start looking for cats.
