Listener 4054- The Square Root of 576 by Leo

[Philoctetes]

Good solid crossword this week. No colouring, no coding, no bells.

[Speravi]

I didn’t think that there were any blank squares: ‘Some clues contain extra material that should assist with filling the grid’. It can be no surprise to anyone following the thread that the first fill gives a certain numerical artefact. The extra letters ‘give information’ that enable the first fill to yield a second numerical artefact.

My problems: (1) ‘The information gained … must literally be used to adjust the initial grid to one that appears totally satisfying’. Well, I’m quite satisfied with my second fill, but ‘totally satisfying’ (rather than merely ‘satisfying’) implies to me that there is a special interpretation to be made (‘totals’ does have a special significance in relation to the artefacts, of course); (2) The title: the square root of 576 is 24, which is the difference between the two values of a characteristic of the artefacts. However, I’m not using that in my adjusted grid; (3) I don’t see why replacing numbers with letters to give real words in the grid is more satisfying than having numbers, but so many commentators think it is that my aesthetic sensibilities must be letting me down. Presumably some simple code is used, A=1, B=2, etc., although that particular code gives me nonsense in some parts.

[midazolam]

there is no code speravi. As mentioned above, the numbers that are originally placed in the blank cells need to be changed to letters so making a grid that contains all real words. Totally satisfying in letter format. Totally satisfying also in the these letters spell out a number. There are 4 possible numbers in letter format that could be entered in the grid, but only one has "literally" direct relevance to the first magic square. Mysterons link tells you that connection if you cant work it out. I can't spell it out any better. The title are those 2 subtracted. The game has been given away so there is no point in me being subtle any more this week

[Speravi]

Many thanks, midazolam. One of my failings is a fondness for soap operatic programmes: you received a name check on last week's "Casualty"!

[cluelessJoe]

... meanwhile, for those of you who just can't be bothered, here's a clue-by-clue list of things you might want to put in your grid
1. Why 4. not 11. just 13. forget 14. about 15. trying 16. too 17. hard 18. and 19. discover 24. all 25. you 26. need 28. in 31. the 32. above 33. thread
Maybe I'm suddenly becoming a little holier-than-thou but I think that on occasons of late we are getting a tad close to those good old days when someone would say "can't start this one" and the likes of QM would leap in with a free listing of half a dozen answers 'just to get you going'.
Yes, sorry, I know , this is the Answerbank and I don't need to be here - but I think that until recentlywe have behaved rather well in the eyes of those who others call 'the Listenerites' - let's try nt to spoil it. I'm all in favour of a gentle leg-up but a few recent postings have made even me cringe.

[Clamzy]

For those interested in the argument with QM you can find the Listener 3952 thread by typing 470275 in place of 814365 in your address bar above.

[kwyjibo]

I agree with CluelessJoe. I broke my own rule this week of not looking at this thread until I'd completed the crossword and some posts have given too much information away.

[cruciverbali]

Yes, a well executed puzzle this week, but I tend to agree with Speravi that the preamble could have been worded better. 'Numbers in brackets refer to lengths of grid entries' confirmed for me that new, longer words were required. I would also agree that's it's probably best to come here once you've finished the puzzle, unless of course you do need some guidance. In this case there is always a chance you'll see more than you needed to, but I guess that is the risk to be taken.

[midazolam]

i totally agree cluelessjoe and cruciverbalist, can we go back to the way it has been with perhaps gentle, subtle nudges, and if still the penny hasnt dropped, either try racking the grey cells further or wait until the solution. This was one of those lateral thinking exercises that could have foxed a number of solvers.

[thebuzz999]

Very tough indeed; definitely one of the hardest of the year. Diagramless puzzles usually require a lot of cold-solving before one can make headway in the grid and this was no exception.

I am sure I have the answer correct, but the wordplay in the clue that starts "Characters in Greece" troubles me...