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Change of hours
7 Answers
My wife works 20 hours per week , from 9am to 1pm , Monday to Friday.
She has done these hours for the past 2 years 6 months.
When she started the part time job , some 5 years 6 months ago she worked an hour extra each day ...until 2pm rather than 1pm.
Her employer has just sent a letter , asking all staff to volunteer to work afternoons , evenings and weekends. The letter says , that failing to work agree to work these different hours , will result in the current contract of work being withdrawn (sacked !) and a new contract being offered to work the new hours.
Can they do this ?
Surely not , I say. My example being .....
I have 10 people to make redundant , so I change their hours from say 9 till 5pm , to 11pm to 4am ....
they refuse ... I sack them ...redundancy payments saved :-)
Thanks
She has done these hours for the past 2 years 6 months.
When she started the part time job , some 5 years 6 months ago she worked an hour extra each day ...until 2pm rather than 1pm.
Her employer has just sent a letter , asking all staff to volunteer to work afternoons , evenings and weekends. The letter says , that failing to work agree to work these different hours , will result in the current contract of work being withdrawn (sacked !) and a new contract being offered to work the new hours.
Can they do this ?
Surely not , I say. My example being .....
I have 10 people to make redundant , so I change their hours from say 9 till 5pm , to 11pm to 4am ....
they refuse ... I sack them ...redundancy payments saved :-)
Thanks
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by SIRandyraven. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.Your question seems to be in 2 parts:
1) Can an employer reduce the hours in a contract? Answer - yes, provided in follows consultation with staff to expalin why a reduction of hours is necessary. If it is being linked to a reduction in business activity the workforce may prefer it to some people being made redundant whilst others live for another day.
2) Can an employer change my wife's contracted hours? Answer - yes, provided they consult and explain the reason for the change and explore alternatives. You don't say if the change for her involves shifting from 9-1 to 8 - 12, since that is the implication of 'mornings'. If that isn't convenient, she needs to explain why to the employer. The scenario you suggest about shifting hours from 9-1 to early in the morning isn't happening - so don't worry about it.
In the unlikely event that it WAS required (because business activity required the task to be done early morning, the need for work done from 9-1pm has reduced, so that is redundancy.
1) Can an employer reduce the hours in a contract? Answer - yes, provided in follows consultation with staff to expalin why a reduction of hours is necessary. If it is being linked to a reduction in business activity the workforce may prefer it to some people being made redundant whilst others live for another day.
2) Can an employer change my wife's contracted hours? Answer - yes, provided they consult and explain the reason for the change and explore alternatives. You don't say if the change for her involves shifting from 9-1 to 8 - 12, since that is the implication of 'mornings'. If that isn't convenient, she needs to explain why to the employer. The scenario you suggest about shifting hours from 9-1 to early in the morning isn't happening - so don't worry about it.
In the unlikely event that it WAS required (because business activity required the task to be done early morning, the need for work done from 9-1pm has reduced, so that is redundancy.
Thanks for the answer.
At this stage they are saying ....
We have too many people working mornings and not adequate staff working afternoons.
We also need people to cover other hours such as weekend work.
They have no budget and need to cover the times where they have too few staff.
If you don't volunteer to change hours from mornings to afternoons and cover weekends or cut your hours , so we can use the money to employ people for afternoons and weekends , we will sack you.
That sums it up .....
At this stage they are saying ....
We have too many people working mornings and not adequate staff working afternoons.
We also need people to cover other hours such as weekend work.
They have no budget and need to cover the times where they have too few staff.
If you don't volunteer to change hours from mornings to afternoons and cover weekends or cut your hours , so we can use the money to employ people for afternoons and weekends , we will sack you.
That sums it up .....
So she has been happy working for the company for 5 years doing 9am to 2pm , then 9am to 1pm , that she agreed to 2 years , 6 months ago to help save costs ...and then they come along and and say , we need you in the afternoons ...agree ...or good bye ....
The company by the way is the Co-op stores group.
The company by the way is the Co-op stores group.
Read between the lines , for the state of the finance of the coop stores group , when they start to have to cut hours of minimum wage store employess , to cut costs ....ie Reduce hours from 20 per week to 15.
I have told the wife , she would be only be better of £20 per week , for working 15 hours than going on the dole ....
I have told the wife , she would be only be better of £20 per week , for working 15 hours than going on the dole ....
Well I agree that it's a pretty pathetic state of affairs to be doing this.
The company wishes to reduce the amount of labour available in the mornings to match the perceived volume of business activity. That's redundancy - no two ways about it. However the payments aren't going to be too much to bear.
What they would prefer to do, of course, it to shift some people to the afternoon. It may actually suit some people - especially if a bit of pressure is put on. I have done this sort of thing myself in my time in HR.
For your wife she needs to work out whether she feels she wants to do this - many part-time wives want morning work because of school-kids returning mid-afternoon so it a countrywide generic problem. If she can fit the hours, then do so. It may also help her case to offer the company to going back to a 2pm finish - either from a 9am start or offering 10am start. That shows some flexibility, and in a 'divide-and-rule' organisation it may help her if things get more difficult.
If they don't get enough volunteers to shift their patterns, I can't guess what they will do, but redundancy for some seems highly likely. Your wife should be trying to second guess how they will do this - LIFO is historically a well-used system - but there is a no guarantee the organisation will use this. Also where she thinks she may lie in the 'pecking order' for out, versus the number of shift (proportion) that need to shift.
She could work out an 'alternative' strategy - by say, sitting it out in the hope she won't get picked, but with a back-up strategy to offer afternoons or weekends, if she gest fingered to be shifted out. It depends how much she wants to job versus the inconvenience of the alternative shifts, I guess.
Hope that helps a bit to understand the 'psychy' behind how these situations develop.
The company wishes to reduce the amount of labour available in the mornings to match the perceived volume of business activity. That's redundancy - no two ways about it. However the payments aren't going to be too much to bear.
What they would prefer to do, of course, it to shift some people to the afternoon. It may actually suit some people - especially if a bit of pressure is put on. I have done this sort of thing myself in my time in HR.
For your wife she needs to work out whether she feels she wants to do this - many part-time wives want morning work because of school-kids returning mid-afternoon so it a countrywide generic problem. If she can fit the hours, then do so. It may also help her case to offer the company to going back to a 2pm finish - either from a 9am start or offering 10am start. That shows some flexibility, and in a 'divide-and-rule' organisation it may help her if things get more difficult.
If they don't get enough volunteers to shift their patterns, I can't guess what they will do, but redundancy for some seems highly likely. Your wife should be trying to second guess how they will do this - LIFO is historically a well-used system - but there is a no guarantee the organisation will use this. Also where she thinks she may lie in the 'pecking order' for out, versus the number of shift (proportion) that need to shift.
She could work out an 'alternative' strategy - by say, sitting it out in the hope she won't get picked, but with a back-up strategy to offer afternoons or weekends, if she gest fingered to be shifted out. It depends how much she wants to job versus the inconvenience of the alternative shifts, I guess.
Hope that helps a bit to understand the 'psychy' behind how these situations develop.
Buildersmate , thanks for the advise.
My wife is going to hold out for redundancy , however low the payout is.
To be honest , it's only a part time job and pin money anyway.
So the options are -
1 - Nowt will happen and she will continue to work current hours.
2 - They make her redundant and she goes on the dole for 6 months and take a break.
During this time or after 6 months find another part time job , with a healthier company.
Not sure what happens after 6 months in the way of benefits ?
You see , I earn in excess of £58K per annum ,so I guess they she will get nowt once the job seekers allowance finishes.
My wife is going to hold out for redundancy , however low the payout is.
To be honest , it's only a part time job and pin money anyway.
So the options are -
1 - Nowt will happen and she will continue to work current hours.
2 - They make her redundant and she goes on the dole for 6 months and take a break.
During this time or after 6 months find another part time job , with a healthier company.
Not sure what happens after 6 months in the way of benefits ?
You see , I earn in excess of £58K per annum ,so I guess they she will get nowt once the job seekers allowance finishes.