shooting to kill

[justineo]

The police have now admitted that the man shot dead yesterday was not involved with the attempted bombings but he didn't stop when ordered to and ran off carrying a bag, which potentially could have been a bomb. What can the police/special forces do in such a situation?  Was it the man's fault for not stopping?  What do you think?

[Bob Carter]

MargeB good points ... but if they were so sure that they had a terrorist bomber nearby what were they doing letting him into the tube station  in the first place?

Peterhouse: Shooting someone eight times tells you something about the state of mind of the person doing the shooting. Especially when they couldn't really miss having him spreadeagled on the floor. It's not just an unfortunate incident, it's armed police out of control on the streets. And so many people are prepared to say if that's the price we have to pay for 'safety' they're willing to pay it.

[MargeB]

Bob, I don't think the point you're raising about 8 bullets is without merit. 8 bullets. To the head. Excuse me, but that is one hell of a mess. At 4, you know extremely well that you have killed him. Some may try and extrapolate backwards from this to determine the state of mind that led to a gun being pointed to his head in the first place.

visa vis the Tube, it's my understanding that they told him they were police, and to stop, at which point he darted into the tube station and lept the barrier.

"possible terrorist".

"STOP"

"Jumps into TUBE"...

Odds aren't in the evader's favour at that point.

[sharptongue]

Thats right stevie21 ...if he was held down or as some say had his hands behind his back then the' threat to human life' has been removed and to shoot now is actually murder .................if at the time of shooting the officer feels there is a threat to lives then he is justified to shoot . The shooting 5 times is a new training by Operation Kratos which has been set up by scotland yard to challenge suicide bombers.The shoot to kill policy has to be the head because this immediately shuts down the nervous system and also to shoot in the body area could detonate a bomb.................Backed with the intelligence received and the fact that this man ran > the police had no option but to shoot (so long as he wasnt restrained first) ..............We can all knock the police now cant we with that wonderful thing called hindsight ...........................

[sharptongue]

In answer to Bob Carter > the police didnt actually want to kill him > they werent aware he would run > they were suspicious of him but at the stage of him running it was THEN they expected him to be carrying a bomb ........they followed him in the hope of gathering intelligence but once he reached the tube station it was risky to let him go further as surveillance would have been more difficult . Once he jumped the barriers > the officers suspicions had just heightened to him being in possession of a bomb ...............he became a moving target once he ran and at this stage probably sealed his death .................tragic but on a split second decision what would you have done ..................obviously if he was restrained then the shoot to kill should have lifted as the threat to lives has just been removed..............

[mouthu]

With all the adrenalin going through the cop with the gun, and the fact they the "suspected terrorist" ran and jumped the barrier, and ran towards a train ( how full was the train?) I can understand why the cop used 8 rounds to do the job. Once you've fired 5, you keep pulling the trigger till the guns empty or you yourself are dead.

I wonder also why they didn't shoot him in the street, To many other people around? I don't know.

Also, as some one has also pointed out, how were the cops to know that he couldn't have detonated a bomb once he was down. Have you ever been in that situation? How do you know? YOU DON'T!

Yes, I do agree though that there should have been uniformed police there, But would we want to wait for them to arrive, or wait for the terrorist to detonate his bomb.

And if anyone is wondering, I do feel for the victims. the Brazilian, the cop, the families of both, and all the people that died two weeks ago.

[Dom Tuk]

For those who dont read the Sunday Times here is an extract........'Within hours of the shooting, however, senior officers were saying they were �very confident� the man had been one of the four bombers who attempted to set off explosives in London on Thursday.

Then, as it emerged that the Brazilian was not one of the four, officers suggested he was still linked to the bombings.
Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, said on Friday the shooting was �directly linked� to anti-terror operations. Even yesterday, hours before Menezes�s identity was confirmed, security sources said he had been known to police from a recent counter-terrorist investigation. ......end of article.

Remember the policies pursued in Northern Ireland/Gibraltar etc. The same officers are likely to be in charge. Surveillance...my Ar..s..e. If you were watching a block of flats you dont just chase someone who comes out of it....no hang on a minute...in England they do and then they kill them.

Atleast one saving grace in all of this. You dont have to look asian to be killed. The force really does not discriminate.

[MargeB]

Very good post Dom Tuk.

We might not be getting given all the facts. If they based the assumption afterwards of a terrorist link on what we know now, then it raises some questions about how they work. Terrorist (n): big jacket, runs away, looks a bit brown, likes subways.

[justineo]

thank you to everyone who contributed and made this a very interesting thread.