Body & Soul1 min ago
My daughter and grandson (aged 2yrs) has moved virtually next door to us...and I want to get a dog. Had staffies all my life but wife has ruled that out. Anyone know how spaniels are with young kids? Thanks
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I have a pedigree dog but you can't deny, lankeela, that there have been and still are some huge genetic problems with breeding and interbreeding. The kennel club has a lot to answer for,and I too have seen the documentary about the spaniels diseases,can still see pekinese snuffling with breathing difficulties,and GSDs now with ridiculousy sloping backs walking strangely because of breeding to KC standards. I hope things are getting better but Crufts is a beauty contest let's face it.
We all know that pedigrees still have genetic problems and don't live as long as most mongrels and cross-breeds and Mollykins has a point.The fact that 'reputable' breeders have to test all their dogs for various problems proves the point. And what happens if they fail these tests-are they put down?
We all know that pedigrees still have genetic problems and don't live as long as most mongrels and cross-breeds and Mollykins has a point.The fact that 'reputable' breeders have to test all their dogs for various problems proves the point. And what happens if they fail these tests-are they put down?
what we all know ganesh is that some breeds have the problems that you describe and other problems too, like English Bulldogs needing caesarian births because the heads are bigger than the pelvises.
BUT There are LOADS of breeds that are by and large healthy and LOADS of ethical caring breeders too, unfortunately IMO until recently the KC hasn't done much to distinguish between the two and support the gooduns.
There are things that the KC could do like say that dogs can't enter KC regulated shows without the required health screens, that dogs should be handled carefully and kindly (that thing where they pick up terrier breeds by the lead and stubby tail to put them on the floor makes me wince). I also think there could be rules about line breeding which would prevent close gene pools.
We have always had purebred dogs because we came to dog ownership as adults, had never had dogs in the family and needed to be sure that the dog we chose would suit us and our lifestyle. I had always loved the looks of the Weimaraner and we were lucky to find a lovely lady breeder who gave us the third degree and helped and supported us in bringing up one of her precious pups. With the exception of one dog who dies aged six of intestinal cancer, our dogs have had long and healthy lives.
To any breeders reading this who think that genetic horrors can't happen to them, I refer you to the sad story of Irish setter blindness :(
BUT There are LOADS of breeds that are by and large healthy and LOADS of ethical caring breeders too, unfortunately IMO until recently the KC hasn't done much to distinguish between the two and support the gooduns.
There are things that the KC could do like say that dogs can't enter KC regulated shows without the required health screens, that dogs should be handled carefully and kindly (that thing where they pick up terrier breeds by the lead and stubby tail to put them on the floor makes me wince). I also think there could be rules about line breeding which would prevent close gene pools.
We have always had purebred dogs because we came to dog ownership as adults, had never had dogs in the family and needed to be sure that the dog we chose would suit us and our lifestyle. I had always loved the looks of the Weimaraner and we were lucky to find a lovely lady breeder who gave us the third degree and helped and supported us in bringing up one of her precious pups. With the exception of one dog who dies aged six of intestinal cancer, our dogs have had long and healthy lives.
To any breeders reading this who think that genetic horrors can't happen to them, I refer you to the sad story of Irish setter blindness :(
And by buying pedigrees off people who breed the dogs with diseases and problems, you are making the problem worse. If they are making money from it, why would they stop. Yes you sometimes have to be careful about rescue dogs, but the good rehoming centres test the dogs for stuff like; are they viscious if you try and take food away, can they be petted by young children, are they good on the lead etc etc etc.
I'm sure there are ethical breeders and I hope my doggy comes from one,her pedigree looks ok but with such big money from pups I'm sure there is a tendency to let them have lots of litters.I think you're right woofgang about what the KC ought to be doing but what they have done is caused a lot of these problems because of the asprired 'breed standard' shape that they decide on.The majority of dog-lovers would prefer to have a healthy real dog surely,rather than one with back problems because it's legs have been bred too short for its body or it can no longer breathe!At least you can see lovely rotweilers with tails around now so I would hope there is some improvements.
Woofgang, i thank you for your reasoned arguments and will give some thoughts on this. Sadly many people make generalised comments such as those about GSD's having roach backs and Bulldogs not being able to whelp normally etc. However, if people buying puppies were to insist that the parents of their puppy had normal conformation and in the case of Bulldogs were self whelping this would help to eradicate the faults. I have a GSD puppy booked whose parents have had all health tests, and both have correct toplines without a roach back and both have firm sound hocks. The case of CLAD in irish Setters is one where the KC will no longer register puppies unless both parents are clear, as they now have a DNA test which has been around for over five years. The GSD people are at present trying to get the KC to agree to health testing before registering puppies, and before allowing them to be shown, but the KC will not make it a requirement. The KC have stopped registering puppies from very close parents, such as brother/sister, mother/son, father/daughter, which in my opinion will make very little difference as unless the parents have a problem the offspring won't have. Two completely unrelated dogs could both have the same problem and produce puppies with it. I had an accidental mother/son mating and the 'pups' from that litter will be fourteen in August, and all are still alive and well. My oldest bitch is fourteen and a half and still winning in the show ring. As for Terriers being picked up by their tails, when they were docked this was so the handlers had something to get hold of when removing them from rabbit holes etc.
There is no evidence to suggest that crossbreeds are any more healthy than pedigrees this is an urban myth. If you mate two unhealthy dogs of different breeds they will produce unhealthy puppies. And as for rescue dogs, why are there so many crossbreeds in rescue kennels?
There is no evidence to suggest that crossbreeds are any more healthy than pedigrees this is an urban myth. If you mate two unhealthy dogs of different breeds they will produce unhealthy puppies. And as for rescue dogs, why are there so many crossbreeds in rescue kennels?
Ganesh, if people did not want to buy pedigree puppies there would be no market for the breeder to sell to, so they would not produce them. Its a case of supply and demand.
The KC restricts registration to no more than six litters from a bitch and no older than 8, but most breeders do not breed anything like that many, although of course some do and also breed more than that and falsify registrations. Some also have many different breeds and again if people were more careful where they bought them from this would cut down the number being bred. As always I say go through the breed clubs who will recommend reputable breeders. As for the breed standards, the Kennel Club do produce these, but it is breeders who change the shape of the dogs to suit the fashion and judges who reward such changes who create the problems. I am sure Jules will agree with this in her breed Rough Collies, where they are being bred with very heavy coats and would struggle to work all day in the wet with a coat like that. If they reverted back to the proper working jacket the dogs would be more able to work all day, but this is something breeders and owners have caused by encouraging the pretty heavy dogs that resemble a stuffed toy rather than a working breed.
The KC restricts registration to no more than six litters from a bitch and no older than 8, but most breeders do not breed anything like that many, although of course some do and also breed more than that and falsify registrations. Some also have many different breeds and again if people were more careful where they bought them from this would cut down the number being bred. As always I say go through the breed clubs who will recommend reputable breeders. As for the breed standards, the Kennel Club do produce these, but it is breeders who change the shape of the dogs to suit the fashion and judges who reward such changes who create the problems. I am sure Jules will agree with this in her breed Rough Collies, where they are being bred with very heavy coats and would struggle to work all day in the wet with a coat like that. If they reverted back to the proper working jacket the dogs would be more able to work all day, but this is something breeders and owners have caused by encouraging the pretty heavy dogs that resemble a stuffed toy rather than a working breed.
As you say it is breeders who change the shape and JUDGES REWARD.And breeders get more for their puppies if there are winners. I totally agree and the KC has therefore caused all the problems and deserve all the criticism.
I also agree it is supply and demand but the average person buying a pet rather than a showdog is not going to know about how many litters mum has had and whether registrations have been falsified or not. Even when you are attracted to a certain breed you still want a healthy dog rather than a perfect showdog that will win prizes.
You must admit that the KC have to be 'persuaded' to change their rules because of public opinion about cruelty .
Regarding rescue dogs I should imagine that if you can splash out several hundred on a pedigree dog you are unlikely to be the type to be cruel to your dog or chuck it out because you can't afford to keep it.
I'm still not sure about pedigrees vs mongrels in the longer life urban myth argument.I think that even my vet has mentioned that pedigree dogs tend to be more delicate and are'nt generally as tough and long-lived as your average Heinz especially the bigger breeds.
I also agree it is supply and demand but the average person buying a pet rather than a showdog is not going to know about how many litters mum has had and whether registrations have been falsified or not. Even when you are attracted to a certain breed you still want a healthy dog rather than a perfect showdog that will win prizes.
You must admit that the KC have to be 'persuaded' to change their rules because of public opinion about cruelty .
Regarding rescue dogs I should imagine that if you can splash out several hundred on a pedigree dog you are unlikely to be the type to be cruel to your dog or chuck it out because you can't afford to keep it.
I'm still not sure about pedigrees vs mongrels in the longer life urban myth argument.I think that even my vet has mentioned that pedigree dogs tend to be more delicate and are'nt generally as tough and long-lived as your average Heinz especially the bigger breeds.
The GSD that won (the 'show' side) at Crufts this year was a dog called Lagos.
Lagos the GSD recently passed his Schutzhund 3 in Germany- an incredibly physically demanding police style obedience test, has had his elbows and hips scored, has had DNA tests, other blood tests, has successfully completed a 20km endurance test. There are no dogs repeated in his 5 generation pedigree - no obvious inbreeding.
That is clearly a sick, badly bred dog!!!!
The police bred GSD's have some of the highest hip scores of all GSD's.
Lagos the GSD recently passed his Schutzhund 3 in Germany- an incredibly physically demanding police style obedience test, has had his elbows and hips scored, has had DNA tests, other blood tests, has successfully completed a 20km endurance test. There are no dogs repeated in his 5 generation pedigree - no obvious inbreeding.
That is clearly a sick, badly bred dog!!!!
The police bred GSD's have some of the highest hip scores of all GSD's.
wow i didn't intend starting WW3....just wanted a dog for my grandson to grow up with. Lankeela thanks for the numbers, and all other contris and helpful comments.....how the subject came round to the genocide of the jews is bewildering.....but clearly you all have dog welfare at heart, which is one common thread we all have, Cheers everyone!!
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