Ken Clarke

[daffy654]

Do you agree with Ken Clarke that we need to scrap shorter prison sentences and introduce more liberal punishments for crimes attracting a sentence of less than 6 months?

///Mr Clarke said short jail sentences had failed to reform criminals and suggested he wanted more ‘liberal’ punishments aimed at cutting the reoffending rate.///

http://www.dailymail....Government-costs.html

I am quite disgusted that we may go back to serious criminals getting pathetically shorter sentences.

[Count-A-Strong]

I wouldn't worry about it too much just yet. There's a long way to go before it has a chance of becoming reality. There is some evidence that jail and YOIs are nothing more than academies of criminal learning with inmates coming out much better versed in the ways of the criminal than they went in. So don't write off the idea as wholly bad.
http://www.independen...of-prison-734147.html

[ludwig]

I do agree with him. I'd like to see more imaginative 'payback' type punishments for the less serious offences and longer sentences for serious crimes, particularly crimes of violence.

[jake-the-peg]

Well you seem to be seriously misrepresenting Ken Clarke's argument - or maybe it's the Mail I can't be bothered to read their rubbish this early.

You've saind you're disgusted that *serious* criminals will get pathetic sentences

But he's talking about those getting sentences of less than 6 months - by definition not "serious criminals"

Sound to me that it's less disgust and more plain fear fear that is motivating your response

[daffy654]

The article also states :

///Justice Secretary Ken Clarke suggested millions could be saved from the £2.2billion prisons budget by jailing fewer offenders and slashing sentences.
Indicating a major shift on prison policy, he questioned the need for the tougher sentencing that has seen the prison population nearly double since the early 1990s.///


That to me reads that he plans to slash the length of all sentences, not just the shorter ones.

I do personally know of at least two young men who received sentences of less than 6 months for assault. In one of the cases the victim's jaw was broken in several places. The offender was out in just over 3 months. The other one was a kick to the face of a female police officer, she suffered a broken nose and severe bruising. That offender was also out in less than the short time he was sentenced to... in fact he spent much of his sentence on 'weekend prison' so he could keep his job.

I am not in the least bit motivated by fear as you state jake, I grew up in less than salubrious surroundings and petty crime does not make me quake in my shoes as you suggest.

[naomi24]

What crimes is he talking about? I have no real idea of the current penalties individual crimes carry. It all seems to vary so much. For burglary for example, or for anything involving violence, then prison is appropriate, but for something that presents no danger to the public, like non-payment of council tax, prison is unnecessary and a more fitting punishment should be handed out.

[daffy654]

Naomi, I do agree that anyone convicted for non payment of Council Tax (and similar crimes) should not be sentenced to prison.

[LoftyLottie]

Without reading the Mail article, I think that it's a reasonable idea. A spell of essential community work for six months, instead of prison would be cheaper and mean that the offenders are giving something back to society. Also imprisonment just increases the chances of them reoffending as has been pointed out by Ludwig.

[daffy654]

I don't see prison as a deterrent, to me it is about punishment. Criminals should be punished, violent criminals should be punished by prison sentences not a slap on the wrist.

[Gromit]

Godd to see the Tories are facing up to reality now they are in Government.

The prisons are full. To build more prisons will take several years and a lot of money which we have not got. The majority of people in prison are there because of non violent fines - motoring offenses, not paying fines, not paying TV license etc.

If I had a choice (and that is what Clarke is saying) I would sooner petty criminals didn't go to prison if that means violent people who might do me harm, get to do their full sentence. The present situation of rapists and killers being let out early, driven by the need to free up cells for TV license evaders is barmy.

I cannot see how you can support that situation daffy654.

[youngmafbog]

No I dont.

[OrcadianOil]

It really depends on what the alternative is, and as far as I'm concerned the only effective one is unpaid community service of a reasonable length which would have to be effectively enforced. Anything else is a kop out.

[rov1200]

Maybe he was thinking about the 4 disgraced MPs awaiting trial?

[I.Don No]

Prison, imho, should of itself be a deterrent to criminals. Of course, financial criminals should not be incarcerated....how can they pay the dosh back if they themselves end up a drain on public money?

There is no need to build more prisons. The ones we have now should be re-fitted to allow 1 person per cell....cell meaning bed, bucket for the obvious, jug for drinking water and certainly no room for tv, playstation and the like. Inmates should be under lock and key for all the time they are there other than to speak to their legal representatives, a situation that should be in some way controlled so that contraband could not be exchanged ..

Again imho opinion prison should be a punishment, the rehabilitation coming from the fact that inmates would not want to go back there. A prison should be that, and not a holiday camp where 'association' leads to the inmates controlling the wings and not the warders.

If you do the crime then you do the time.....all of it.