Did moat shoot himself in the head?

[Gromit]

Moats uncle, a guns expert and former Army Royal Artillery officer, Charlie Alexander, saw his body in the hospital mortuary and claims there was not a scratch on him from the neck upwards. He is saying he could see any wounds consistent with Moat blowing his own head off.

Story in the Daily mail:

http://www.dailymail....D-Raoul-Moat-die.html

C0ck up? Cover up? or Assassination?

[RATTER15]

Everton, So nobody in Police custody have been convicted or you think they are going to convict a dead person??

[modeller]

# Moats uncle, a guns expert and former Army Royal Artillery officer, #

His uncle was not a commisioned officer. He was a NCO in the RA . Who would have little if any experience seeing facial injuries.

Gromit if you don't have a problem with the police why the paranoia. Your Q & A almost invariably support the criminals and criticise the police . It is only when you are challenged that you tone down your comments or you go silent for a while.

[Kromovaracun]

I really doubt Moat's uncle is qualified to make the judgement. Not out of know-how, but emotional clouding. The man has been quite vocal in his criticism of the police for how they handled it, and has famously insisted that it would have gone differently had the police allowed him to negotiate (which regardless of how well he knew Raoul is impossible to say given that he'd quite clearly gone off the edge).

Gromit, your concern is understandable, but will it really help in this case? I think it's important to bear in mind police morale. They've had a lot of quite public criticism thrown at them in this case when they seem to have done an excellent job cornering him. While it's important to root out and punish police excesses and abuses, it's just as vital to praise them when they do a good job. Even -if- (and I do say if) there was a little foul play in this incident (and I can't see how it could be more than a little), it seems more trouble than it's worth considering the damage it'll do to police morale.

[Kromovaracun]

* Sorry, I meant to add to what I was saying about Moat's uncle.

I find it very, very plausible that he saw what he wanted to see. His qualifications means he'll pick up on details others won't, but I think the situation also means he'd very likely read into them more than an 'outsider' would.

[Gromit]

S I posted earlier in this thread, there is to be a second post mortem and tat should clear things up.

Remember, the first post mortem of Ian Tomlison has been widely criticised, with two subsequent PMs contradicting it in relation to the cause of his death.

[Gromit]

Kromovaracun
This case concern the death of a suspect in a Police Tazer incident. It has since been reported that Nirthumbria police deploy Tazers more than any other force. More tha the Met in London, and more than every other police force put together.

Tazers are dangerous and have resulted in several deaths. It has been suggested that the Northumbria force is using them too much, and that it is their first resort rather than their last resort.

Next time it could be you.

[modeller]

Gromit # I do not care that Moat is dead, the world is probably a better place without him.#

So you won't be among the mourners then . ?

[modeller]

Gromit # Tazers are dangerous and have resulted in several deaths. It has been suggested that the Northumbria force is using them too much, and that it is their first resort rather than their last resort. #
I'm a little puzzled by your quote # their first resort #. If that is so what were they talking to him about for the 6 hours before a shot was heard. Maybe in your part of the country # first resort # means after 6 hours. With your inside knowledge you may like to explain.

[Kromovaracun]

"Tazers are dangerous and have resulted in several deaths. It has been suggested that the Northumbria force is using them too much, and that it is their first resort rather than their last resort.

Next time it could be you. "

I understand that - I'm not arguing with that.

It's important to try and punish any police excesses or abuses (which I think the whole Ian Tomlinson thing was a much better example of) I'm just saying maybe in this particular case it's more trouble than it's worth. The police did an excellent job tracking him down, working round the clock etc. and I think that stands out an awful lot more here than what seems to be a fairly common transgression regarding the use of tazers.

The reason I say that is because I think we need to be careful to consider the morale of the police force. The police have come under a lot of criticism lately (rightly) for things that they've handled badly or done wrong - but I think it's all the more damaging to do so while overlooking the fact that they did very well. If they feel like they're going to get criticised for what was other wise a very well-run operation, they'll be -even less- receptive to it in future over genuine errors.

Is that really worth it in this case? To satisfy Moat's uncle? That's all it'll really achieve at the potential cost of a more embittered police force. I don't think it's worth it.