My puppy in season...help!!

[Ellie-Mae]

Hi there, I wondered if anyone could give me advise on my 6.5 month old female Shihtzu who was booked in to be spayed on the 4th of Jan but started her season the week before. What i need to know is...."does thier season start from the day they start bleeding or before and if it's before can she get pregnant? I'm worried because on xmas day our family all got together and 6 dogs with 2 males who tried mating Ellie all day...Poor little thing!!! The week before i spoke to a nurse at our vets and she said she didn't think she was coming into season and i would be fine to be with other dogs....she is on day 10 of bleeding and putting on weight but hoping thats because I'm not taking her on a walk rather than being pregnant!!!!
Please help and many thanks!!!

[Bambiagain]

The dangerous time is around the second week, so you should be safe. Bleeding is usually the first sign you notice, but if you notice her vulva is swollen before that, then it indicates she is in season.

[lankeela]

Why on earth did you allow them to try mating her all day????? If she is still bleeding now it is very unlikely she is pregnant. The crucial time is usually after the discharge becomes less red (more of a straw colour) which happens at around day 10 - 12 usually. Some bitches can be mated as early as day 7 or as late as day 28. They are usually in season for several days before the bleeding starts but you need to take care as you may not notice the bleeding if she is very clean, so won't notice when the season actually starts. The vets won't want to spay her until her insides return to normal, usually about three months after the season. She also would very likely not be putting on weight yet if she was pregnant. The males would have smelt that she was due to come in season.

[jules77]

Poor little thing indeed, why didnt you stop them! As Lankeela says it is doubtful she is in whelp, but it may be wise to get a check up at the vets.

[ganesh]

My question is if she was going to be spayed before her first season then why not book her in before 6 months? Also,I thought vets liked to give them a season before spaying as it can stunt normal growth.

[lankeela]

Spaying before a first season can be done, and it certainly does not stunt growth or make them any less feminine, I had a Collie cross who lived with three entire males and was done at five and a half months. Some people prefer them to have a season first but I found no problem having her done early.

[Ellie-Mae]

Thank you all very much for yr advice and comments! That helps alot. My vets have told me so many different things & being a New dog owner myself really isn't helpful! 2 vets and 2 nurses told me different things about getting her spayed so i am still none the wiser and looking at other vet practices to take her to. I love her so much- i didn't let the other dogs mate her-what i meant was they were very interested and one had his "carrot" out but is only a tiny Chihuahua & got her in the eye and ear before up sticking him in cage. Please dont think Im iresponsible as that's why i took her to the vets before Xmas to get her checked.
Many thanks again
ps- my vet told me to get her spay at 6 months but before she came into season but since then other vets say it's best for them to have a 1st season for health reasons.

[welshlibranr]

Not sure Ellie, they are usually more likely to become pregnant about half way through the season!..........but she could be!.........Lankeela is better qualified to answer your question if she's around!............

[lankeela]

The best thing is to now book her in for about three months time so you don't have the worry next time.

[ganesh]

I do agree that it's an old wives tale that if you neuter early it can stunt growth.lankeela but why do most vets say they prefer bitches to have a natural season first?If there is no problem why not spay at 4-5 months when there is no risk that she will come into season,as in this case. I had my kittens done fairly early (I have a boy and girl) well before she could have got pregnant,but the vet didn't want to do it until as close to the time as possible,possibly for future urinary problems,I don't know,but growth hormones may well be affected.In fact I would suggest that there has been little research on this subject and how often in science do we later discover a little truth in old wives tales?

[lankeela]

ganesh there has been reams and reams of research published on this subject, but there are still conflicting reports so it is natural for vets to differ in their opinions depending on where they did their training. Urinary incontinence seems to be the main worry with early spaying, but the other health benefits far outweigh this, including mammary tumours and pyometra in later life, both of which can be fatal.
In one study 2.5% of early spayed bitches suffered some form of urinary incontinence, with a large proportion of that 2% being large breeds, whilst smaller breeds showed a much lower percentage. In an ideal world I would wait until after a first season, but in my case with three entire males it was not something that I was prepared to do, as an accidental mating and subsequent whelping or termination on a young bitch would have carried far more health implications.

[ganesh]

Lankeela..I totally agree with your decision and I think that if there is a danger of unwanted pregnancy or you never intend to beed from them then do it as soon as possible.
I let my dog have a season as advised by my vet and she suffered with huge sore swollen nippes (and other bits!!) and hardly had any excercise for a fortnight,plus blood on the carpet.All for what,when I knew I wouldn't breed from her?
I was just making a comment on your statement of fact that there was no potential health risk of affecting growth or anything else,by spaying early,which you yourself have now said that vets disagree on. And 2% which you also quote is quite a risk if you ask me.Ok,I stand corrected if you say there HAS been a lot of research done on it already,but maybe more is needed if they are all still arguing about it.

[lankeela]

Just a point there, the 2% was only 2% of the study dogs, not 2% of the population although I don't know the figures they were working with. If you google 'early spaying of bitches' or something similar you will see loads of reports some for and some against.

[jules77]

Afraid I have to disagree on this one. I would always wait until the bitch is at least 12 months old to give her time to mature and at least have one season. Although it doesnt stunt growth, it does make them look leggy and if spayed before 12 months of age it does increase the risk of osteosarcoma, bone cancer, particularly in large breeds. One thing the vet wont tell you is that spaying changes the coat texture, and in some breeds the coat becomes very difficult to manage.