Listener Crossword 4143: the Bottom Line by Charybdis

[Zabadak]

Not so much a Listener Crossword, more a plea for sanity. A neatly put together grid with an eye less to the difficulty of solving than to the transparency of the message. Nothing too difficult here - only a handful of clues needed aids to fully resolve. I appreciated the charade - a rather clever spot by Charybdis, to whom much appreciation and thanks.

[tenflags]

Well I enjoyed that one - in between watching the tennis yesterday.

Hi Andrewg-s - I hope your are right about Murray having a good chance - but I have to say being a big fan of Roger F and seeing Rafa N live earlier in the week that they are both looking awesome . Novak also looking good - although his effort and tantrum yesterday suggests that the wheels are at least wobbling if not coming off.

[Clamzy]

I think Charybdis gave us a good workout this week with some tricky bits to sort out. I do agree with Tilbee that there was a little ambiguity here and there - but that's the Listener for you.

[ichkeria]

"Still confused about the 'solution' which seems to me more a goal than a way to achieve this "

The "problem" isn't really what is represented by the graph - that's the cause of the other problems. I think that is what is meant.
I didn't see any ambiguity in the instructions, but perhaps I didn't look closely enough

[tilbee]

Ichkeria - thanks for the clarification, that now makes sense. As I have previously said on this site, if you think there is an issue with the setting it is because you have not quite understood it. In this case, mea culpa.

[BlackHugh]

I too have finished - thanks to the sunny weather this afternoon allowing one to laze around in the garden without a sense of guilt :-). But, as with some others I haven't understood the original 19a - does one need to?

[trux]

BH : One does not, but one feels better if one does, especially after a sunny day. Re-read the pre-ramble - and think what "is cryptically represented at 19" ....

[shelouse]

Finished, quickly for me. No trouble with 19, but am worried about the way to achieve the solution. Are you supposed to apply the solution, which would invalidate the graph, or merely note that new words would be created if you did?

[Coalminers]

I particularly liked the extra thematic down clue, which appears to offer a solution more specifically.

[Coalminers]

But I do think Noah would agree with me that the minimal samples referred to are insufficient.

[Coalminers]

And perhaps need the inverse treatment to that suggested to by the aforementioned clue.

[Trekman]

Would the explanatory message make more sense if you made the first two words four letters long? That's what I thought until the penny dropped.

[aldanna]

Very busy weekend, so glad the Listener was relatively straightforward. Sailed through the first 90% of the grid in the odd gaps in Life, and all finished now that Life has stopped for a bit. I never got the original 19ac - as someone said this is slightly unsatisfactory but it doesn't seem to matter as far as completing the grid goes.

[Mysterons]

For 'capital' think Paddington

[trux]

For 19, if one has realised what's represented, then think what's clued ... and second pdm will soon follow

[7lattens]

Thank you Charybdis - brilliant construction and educational too - I had no knowledge of this individual and the original 19a was also deviously delightful

[easterfool]

An early finish for me - and I only started today. Needed my degree memories too - not used to that other than on the 4 regular hates for some people. Well done Charybdis - I hope that I don't fall into any whirlpools when entering my answers and shading my words. The end of the first sentence of the words of wisdom is critical for a correct entry, isn't it?

[Mysterons]

That's the end of the line easterfool, but the solution does require an adjustment to be made to the entry.

[easterfool]

Mysterons - thanks for that. I was still wondering over this until I saw the word "create" rather then the phrase "would create" - so it suggests that the instruction must be followed so that the new words are created as with the name replacement. I do have to think twice and then twice again sometimes to make sure that I have followed every step required.

[Staurologist]

The more one thinks about Listener puzzles the more one gets out of them, and this one was no exception. If you Google the 23-letter phrase as it is in inverted commas, you will get the webpage that TheBear69 refers to, at the top of the list. Of course, predictions of this sort have been largely wrong ever since 19 published his own, but the general point is correct. Two small points about the preamble: the graph cannot really be described as being "surprisingly accurate" (see the webpage referred to above); and the replacement and solution do not create new words throughout, as implied (although admittedly not stated)--13, 35, and 16d are unchanged--"create new words or leave words unchanged" would have been more precise.

[Still on the trail of the double puzzles.]

[ichkeria]

I don't remember thinking that the preamble was inaccurate. It doesn't say that new words are created throughout and nor, to my mind, does it imply it, either.
Mind you, it doesn't actually tell us explicitly to write in our answers, so maybe that was also a step too far :-)