Property Owned As Tenants In Common
Law1 min ago
travellers - what if they actually did all move into houses?
just curious, as there is a lot of angst about them and people are furious that they wont move into houses and settle properly like everyone else...
but, what if they did?
what if one day, all travellers just said "we give up, weve had enough, we will comply" and so split up moved all over the country into houses...
would that be better? would you like one or two families as your neighbours?
if, as many claim, they are totally rotten people, then surely its better to keep them separate?
they would not suddenly become good law abiding, friendly people...they would still be exactly as they are now...just in your street...permanently...and their kids in 'your' schools etc...
how woudl your neighbourhood cope?
how would the shops and pubs deal with them?
would there be issues?
would people try to segregate them again?
woudl you hire them?
so what would you choose?
cheers
(please stick to the point and dont just comment to traveller bash)
but, what if they did?
what if one day, all travellers just said "we give up, weve had enough, we will comply" and so split up moved all over the country into houses...
would that be better? would you like one or two families as your neighbours?
if, as many claim, they are totally rotten people, then surely its better to keep them separate?
they would not suddenly become good law abiding, friendly people...they would still be exactly as they are now...just in your street...permanently...and their kids in 'your' schools etc...
how woudl your neighbourhood cope?
how would the shops and pubs deal with them?
would there be issues?
would people try to segregate them again?
woudl you hire them?
so what would you choose?
cheers
(please stick to the point and dont just comment to traveller bash)
Answers
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many already do this, their children go to the local schools, and the adults drink in the local pubs, they are not as segregated as some seem to think. Its just that many seem to break the law with impunity, and buying up land then building on it, with no planning permission, no matter how that works, its breaking the law. If they don't work, how do they get the money to buy the land, and stay on it for so long.
It they turn out to be cheating lying lazy skinflints, who won't pay their way like every other decent citizen, makng life a misery for their neighbours, and bringing down the area they live in. A leopard doesn't change it's spots. I would not like them one bit joko (even though as em says, some of them already have £100,000+ houses already in Ireland).
We once answered a classified ad for some drums (Mr Saxy is a pro drummer). When we got to the house, we rang the doorbell and it was answered by an old lady who seemed not to know why we were there. Behind her were four or five other women of varying age. When we explained who we were she told us to go and ring the bell at the back gate. We did and a young man duly came to the gate. He apologised for the messing around and explained that they were gypsies, that the men lived in a separate bungalow at the end of the garden and that some of the residents in each house were elderly or 'ill' (I suspect a couple had learning disabilities) and that was why they were 'settled'.
Despite their somewhat unusual distribution of living space (which I gather is pretty much the norm for gypsies in this situation), I have to say that what I saw of the houses and garden were clean and well-maintained, and the house 'at the bottom of the garden' clearly not thrown up and had been there for a number of years. If these are the standards of settled gypsies, then they can move into our street any day. However, I somehow doubt the whole gypsy population would ever do this.
Despite their somewhat unusual distribution of living space (which I gather is pretty much the norm for gypsies in this situation), I have to say that what I saw of the houses and garden were clean and well-maintained, and the house 'at the bottom of the garden' clearly not thrown up and had been there for a number of years. If these are the standards of settled gypsies, then they can move into our street any day. However, I somehow doubt the whole gypsy population would ever do this.
I ‘ll try to stick to answering your questions, joko.
My view is that their behaviour would not change. I know of a number of areas where “travellers” have settled into bricks and mortar accommodation. They still live in the same manner as they did when “travelling”.
The essence of the life of travellers is not only do they allegedly have an aversion to living in bricks and mortar (though some of the structures they build on their encampments are just about as permanent as you can get). They also have an aversion to any contact whatsoever with what they term “the authorities” (unless it is to their advantage). Yes, some of them send their children to school (much to the dismay of the parents of children from the “settled community”) but that’s about it.
They deal only in cash as they don’t want the taxman prying into their affairs. I know of a family who bought a plot of land not far from where I live for £400,000 in cash - £50 notes. If I did that I would have the authorities knocking on my door demanding an explanation as to where I obtained the money and accusing me of money laundering and tax evasion. But they don’t.
I have seen front and back gardens in residential areas used as scrapyards with car dismantling going on at all hours. All the business properly registered for VAT, naturally!
They drive vehicles which do not appear in their names on the DVLA database. They commit large numbers of motoring offences and rarely bother with such niceties as insurance or MoT testing.
So:
how woudl your neighbourhood cope? – Probably in the same way as they cope in areas like Dale Farm (badly)
how would the shops and pubs deal with them? – Ditto. In areas where they live many shops suffer enormous levels of pilfering and intimidation should they complain to the police. Pubs are often forced to restrict admission to “regulars only” with all the hassle that goes with refusing to admit “travellers”
.
would there be issues? – Definitely
would people try to segregate them again? – They wouldn’t need to. By their own behaviour they segregate themselves.
woudl you hire them? – The question would not arise. Rarely do they seek employment in the conventional way (see above my remarks regarding tax, etc.). They prefer instead to work for themselves (cash in hand, obviously).
In short many of them want to live their lives untroubled by the rules, regulations and laws to which the rest of us are subject. Nobody much cares whether they live in caravans or sheds at the bottom of the garden. It is their contempt for the law (and the apparent indifference of the police and others to their activities) that upsets many people.
I’m not saying my view is true of all of them, but it certainly is true of a sizeable number. Of course, not unusually, I’ll be accused of bigotry, racism, and generalisation. That may be so, but that’s my opinion of many “travellers” and their way of life.
My view is that their behaviour would not change. I know of a number of areas where “travellers” have settled into bricks and mortar accommodation. They still live in the same manner as they did when “travelling”.
The essence of the life of travellers is not only do they allegedly have an aversion to living in bricks and mortar (though some of the structures they build on their encampments are just about as permanent as you can get). They also have an aversion to any contact whatsoever with what they term “the authorities” (unless it is to their advantage). Yes, some of them send their children to school (much to the dismay of the parents of children from the “settled community”) but that’s about it.
They deal only in cash as they don’t want the taxman prying into their affairs. I know of a family who bought a plot of land not far from where I live for £400,000 in cash - £50 notes. If I did that I would have the authorities knocking on my door demanding an explanation as to where I obtained the money and accusing me of money laundering and tax evasion. But they don’t.
I have seen front and back gardens in residential areas used as scrapyards with car dismantling going on at all hours. All the business properly registered for VAT, naturally!
They drive vehicles which do not appear in their names on the DVLA database. They commit large numbers of motoring offences and rarely bother with such niceties as insurance or MoT testing.
So:
how woudl your neighbourhood cope? – Probably in the same way as they cope in areas like Dale Farm (badly)
how would the shops and pubs deal with them? – Ditto. In areas where they live many shops suffer enormous levels of pilfering and intimidation should they complain to the police. Pubs are often forced to restrict admission to “regulars only” with all the hassle that goes with refusing to admit “travellers”
.
would there be issues? – Definitely
would people try to segregate them again? – They wouldn’t need to. By their own behaviour they segregate themselves.
woudl you hire them? – The question would not arise. Rarely do they seek employment in the conventional way (see above my remarks regarding tax, etc.). They prefer instead to work for themselves (cash in hand, obviously).
In short many of them want to live their lives untroubled by the rules, regulations and laws to which the rest of us are subject. Nobody much cares whether they live in caravans or sheds at the bottom of the garden. It is their contempt for the law (and the apparent indifference of the police and others to their activities) that upsets many people.
I’m not saying my view is true of all of them, but it certainly is true of a sizeable number. Of course, not unusually, I’ll be accused of bigotry, racism, and generalisation. That may be so, but that’s my opinion of many “travellers” and their way of life.
No you wouldn't want them as neighbours. They are very well up on their legal rights, flaunt laws, yet need educating on being well behaved . If you're in the local pub and express an opinion they don't agree with , expect a punch on the nose. They don't understand that if you need the loo , use the one in the house, not the neighbours garden. Rubbish thats what you make for others to clear up at the expense of taxpaying neighbours who aren't on benefits . Even the settled ones in this village, who try (maybe) at times to follow the rules that everyday people adhere too, do so ,very unsuccessfully.
Their children pull knives on headteachers of Junior Schools, Yes I did type Junior Schools, only to be told by the Gypsy Council (to whom schools have to report too about such incidents).' That the problem is that you dont understand the gypsy culture'. What? knives are Ok if your have a Gypsy background.
They have rights that we dont have. Despite the school being full to capicity and a waiting list , as travellars they can get over-ride this, and get their children in. This has just happened recently locally. You make an appointment with your doctor, you can't get one for . lets say 5 dys. Travellar walks into surgery, needs an appointment, gets one straight away . Speaking from experience here..They have priority!! Then everyone gets resentfull, sounds very similiar to illegal immigrants.
As for hiring one , well no! We make a point of hiring local trademen known to us, and avoid those who only advertise mobile nos.
The problem is that they are very quick too say they have human rights. Yet aren't prepared to respect the human rights off others.
Their children pull knives on headteachers of Junior Schools, Yes I did type Junior Schools, only to be told by the Gypsy Council (to whom schools have to report too about such incidents).' That the problem is that you dont understand the gypsy culture'. What? knives are Ok if your have a Gypsy background.
They have rights that we dont have. Despite the school being full to capicity and a waiting list , as travellars they can get over-ride this, and get their children in. This has just happened recently locally. You make an appointment with your doctor, you can't get one for . lets say 5 dys. Travellar walks into surgery, needs an appointment, gets one straight away . Speaking from experience here..They have priority!! Then everyone gets resentfull, sounds very similiar to illegal immigrants.
As for hiring one , well no! We make a point of hiring local trademen known to us, and avoid those who only advertise mobile nos.
The problem is that they are very quick too say they have human rights. Yet aren't prepared to respect the human rights off others.
Well the ones on Dale farm haven't moved much!
I think what annoys people is that these people are above the law they pay nothing towards society and act as parasites at the same time, I think if they had fixed abode then they could at least be persued for taxes etc like the rest of us. No doubt they'd make bad neighbours but there's plenty of those as it is. We each must take our chances on that front. Perhaps all those protesters could each give them a spot on their land if they have it, I gather some of them are quite wealthy. I wonder if redgrave and co would change their tune when their land is covered in excrament and their house is broken into and ransacked. Just a thought.
I think what annoys people is that these people are above the law they pay nothing towards society and act as parasites at the same time, I think if they had fixed abode then they could at least be persued for taxes etc like the rest of us. No doubt they'd make bad neighbours but there's plenty of those as it is. We each must take our chances on that front. Perhaps all those protesters could each give them a spot on their land if they have it, I gather some of them are quite wealthy. I wonder if redgrave and co would change their tune when their land is covered in excrament and their house is broken into and ransacked. Just a thought.
BT, i do think that's what gets up people noses, the sheer hypocrisy, don't pay tax, insurance, council tax, but expect to be housed, have medical care, and send the children to school. Why should anyone be entitled, not just these travellers, who hasn't paid in the system. How do they manage to get hundreds of thousands to buy plots of land anyway. Perhaps like one bloke in the programme last night, admitted that he had committed armed robbery, and when asked by the reporter if he was sorry said no.
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