Does fate exist?

[cazzz1975]

Is life pre planned or does free will shape our lives? why do some inexplicable situations occur that appear to lend themselves to fate or are they really just a bizarre co-incidence?

[Bambiagain]

Eddie51 - according to Terry Pratchett, Death has a library of books, one for everyone, and each book is being updated throughout the life of each person.

[jomifl]

OK bambi, end of discussion. :-)

[cathfromsaron]

yes, that's what i think jake the peg!

although inevitability and pre-destination are not the same thing!

but like i say, you reap what you sow!

[Bambiagain]

Didn'T mean to put a stop to it - although it seems I haven't (yet).

[goodlife]

Mankind can have a very bright future. The earth will be transformed into a paradise where peace and security will reign. (Psalm 37:9-11; 46:8, 9) That future is certain because the God will fulfill his promises. (Isaiah 55:11) But our being blessed with life in Paradise does not depend on fate; it is to be enjoyed as a result of our obediently doing God’s will at this time, the choice is in your hand.

[naomi24]

Phooey!

[keyplus90]

Naomi - /////Jom, I was going to mention that - but then I thought 'let's not go there'. ;o)////

You can’t agree with whatever I would say just for the sake of it as I am supposed to be the opposition. And you can’t even digest that someone else understood before you did, (and agreed) about something what I said. “Oh, yes I saw that too but………………”.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, don't assume that everyone thinks as you do. I don't tell lies and I say what I mean.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, actually perhaps I should expand on that. Read Jom’s post again and think about whether he’s really agreeing with you. Perhaps when you have my response will become clearer.

[mibn2cweus]

//Phooey!//

Good call.

[naomi24]

Haaa! Wisest course of action in the circumstances. ;o)

[mibn2cweus]

Or as another wise woman once said . . . "Where's the beef?"

[Old_Geezer]

The thing is, birdie, that despite the name pre-planning and predetermination is not the same thing. Pre-planning requires something to exist that is able to plan a course to a desired goal, whereas predetermination merely says any control you have is illusionary and what unfolds next is an inevitable consequence of the existing state of things and unalterable.

Of your 4 possibilities, the first needs a large discussion on what the heck 'free will' is supposed to be. When I try to analyse it, it seems to be either the ability to come to a best decision outside of any influences but as an innate ability (which AI machines can already accomplish) or the more amazing, an ability to deliberately chose a less likely to be correct decision just for the heck of it. All very weird, and IMO seems unlikely.

Option two is about having limited 'free will' (whatever it is) within a determined framework. It seems to me to probably be a contradiction but I guess it depends on how one defines things.

Initially option three seems absurd but one could argue that outside events are truly random, merely seeming to be predetermined, and 'free will' is actually an illusion; so we are just along for the ride. That if we were able to return to a previous point in time and let time 'flow' again it could take a different path.

Option four seems most likely to me given the lack of evidence for 'free will'. Are we not all subject to how our brains are 'wired up' and the circumstances we find ourselves in, when we make decisions ? something we don't seem to have much control over since to have control over what gives us control would be like a machine creating itself from nothing. Why would option four not be the reasonable conclusion ?

[mibn2cweus]

Free will isn't free. It implies that one has an alternative and comes at a price. It is reason which reveals what alternatives are available and which is the better choice, the most fundamental being that which pays for the privilege of free will, the choice to think or not to think . . . Can you choose wisely?

[naomi24]

Within religion the words ‘Free Will’ have surely to be the greatest contradiction in terms. Yes, you have the freedom to make a choice, but if you don’t choose to obey the fellow who gave you that choice, then woe betide you!