The Holy Trinity.

[Theland]

How do you understand the concept of the Holy Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?
It is accepted in faith by most but not all christians, yet is an important part of christian doctrine.
Even atheists can read the texts in the bible and come to a conclusion on this, as to what the scriptures actually say or infer, regardless of their unbelief.

[jake-the-peg]

That last paragraph's a bit dodgy V V
The truth is, however, that we haven�t yet the intellectual capacity to fully understand what is beyond our reach.


How can you ever have the capacity to understand what is beyond your reach?

I like your analogy of the white light - it's not ideal because that's a mixture of colours being seperated by the prism.

However your belief in 3 individual existances that are one and the same is probably no stranger than my understanding of an electron that is both a particle and a wave.

It's certainly much easier to grasp than concepts of quantum entanglement or particles that can tunnel through barriers or pop in and out of existance.

I don't for a moment believe your God exists but if I did I'd have no issue with the Trinity

[chakka35]

It's not very polite of you, Theland, to tell people that they are made in the image of your god.
Some people might resent being represented as a jealous monster who kills whole tribes - men, women, children and animals - just because they won't worship him, and calls on others to do the same; who destroys whole cities on a whim; who slaughters everyone on earth (other than one family) on at least one occasion; and generally commits more crimes against humanity than Hitler, Stalin and Sadaam added together and multiplied a million times.
Keep your insults within reason, Theland, do.

[Theland]

Thank you all for your posts and apologies for not getting back sooner.
Coincidence here, I was actually thinking of incorporating quantum entanglement in an answer, but our resident physicist, Jake, for whom I have the greatest of respect, beat me to it. Mind you, his opinions are based on academic understanding whereas mine is purely that of the layman.
Thank you Village vicar for your contribution, that is not unlike my analogy of the, "Threesomeness," of creation: 'Length. breadth, height. -- Past, present, future, -- Solid, liquid, gas. -- birth, life, death, -- so you get the picture ....
chakka35 - As you know, it is not my intention to be ill mannered, and as I believe god to be a God of love, I don't see anybody getting upset.

[naomi24]

I have a problem with the concept of the Holy Trinity. Putting it simply, if this is three in one, then why doesn't one know what the other two are doing? Jesus was on the cross and cried out to God, but if Jesus is God, albeit God the son, surely he would have known what was in God the father's mind, and in that case, why bother crying out at all? If he is God and he couldn't help himself, then what was the point of appealing to his alter-ego? Additionally, if God is not a separate being, why did Jesus pray to God? Was he praying to himself? It makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[jno]

Naomi, I have been known to wonder what I am doing. Wondering what my father was doing would be less of a problem. But I do have a problem figuring out how I could be my own father. (Yes, I could be a mother and a daughter simultaneously - but not my own mother). Along with stuff about being born of a virgin, this is a big obstacle to making Christianity sound plausible. The teachings of Islam, by contrast, are reasonably straightforward (if you accept the existence of Allah)

[VillageVicar]

There�s one third trinity I often like to use, especially when people disagree with one another. It tends to (hopefully) take away the aggression, the ganging up, the discounting, and denigrating. And it tends to work in matters of faith, relationships, law, and the greatest number of issues that proactive scientists, theologians, physicians, judges, friends and strangers use:

It�s �how I see it, how you see it, and the way it really is.�

Fr Bill

[naomi24]

JNO, yes, virgin births, and according to the Roman Catholics, not only one, are also a bit of a problem, aren't they. Not a shred of evidence.

Fr Bill, I don't feel aggression towards anyone, but I enjoy debate, and since that is what AB is about, I enjoy contributing. Having said that, I fail to understand to logic in organised Christianity. Jesus said 'love one another'. What more does this world need?

[VillageVicar]

naomi24: Actually, you have it summed it up in a way that could never be better defined. I practice my faith every day. It�s only occasionally that I use words.

Fr Bill

[naomi24]

Thank you Fr Bill.

[deggers316]

The idea of the Holy Trinity was conceived in the fourth century to circumvent the problem of polytheism. There was difficulty regarding the idea that a religion with one god that had Jesus, god and the holy spirit.
Emperor Constantine organised a meeting (At Nicea, if i remember rightly) and many of the great theologians and religious leaders of the time, basically got their collective heads together to solve the problem of polytheism within a church which supposedly had one God.
The conclusion was that all three are assumed to be different manifestations of the same entity, this got around the problem of polytheism put presents us with new philosophical problems regarding the idea of God.
For example Jesus as God incarnate raises the conceptual difficulty of God being both divine and transcendent and man at the same time, but how in ordinary terms can this be true?
It's interesting that a corollary of trinity actually has people believe in God in was that correspond to their notion of what they think trinity is. So poeple think of Jesus in personal terms a 'divine chum' who connects with their humanity, and they often see God in quite different ways.

[gordo_burns]

There arde difernt vieas as to what the trinity is depending on who you ask.

One view is that the trinirt is like an egg. altogether we have the shell, the white and the yoke. All three form part of the egg, but can be used differently.

Another view is that the trinity is like water. It can excist as water (a liquid) ice (a solid) steam (a gass) In its different states it has different rolls to play.

Another view is that the trinity is like a committee. The word God, they say, actually means Godhead. The Father is part of the God head and can be called God. Jesus is part of the God head and can be called God and the Holly Gohst (Spirit) is part of the God head and can be called God. All three are seperate and distinct individuals but together they make up the God head (commitee) That is like a board of directors the CEO, the Secrfetary and the Treasurer All three with their seperate jobs but togethewr they make up the board of directors.

There are some that belive Jesus is God maniffest in the flesh but will insist that they do not belive in a Trinity.

I for one do not belive the Bible teaches a trinity but teaches that the Father is the Almighty God, the creator of every thing. That Jesus is the forst creation of God and was the agency that God the Fathjer used in creating all other things. In other words God originated the idea, designed all the parts put everything in motion and Jesus did the work. Both can be said to have been involved in creation just like when a house is duilt. There is the company that draws up the pans, gathers the materials and then there are the people who actuallu do the work. In both cass4es the company and the workers can rightly say they built a particular building.

The holly spirit I belive is not a person at all but the power of God that he can impart to others to help them do a particualr work or job.

[ResLight]

The idea of triune God developed after the Bible was written; the Bible writers never presented any concept of a trinity. It was not part of the faith that was once delivered to the saints in the first century, and since the dogma developed around that teaching annuls the purpose for which Jesus came in the flesh, it should not be included in the beliefs of any Bible-believing Christian.