ChatterBank6 mins ago
MM Links July 2012 Week 3
54 Answers
At one time archery was crucial to the defence and protection of England. It was the great long bow that won, among others, the battle of Agincourt .English longbowmen could loose between 6 and 8 flights of arrows per minute with a range of 200 to 300 yards against the French cross bowmen who could fire between 2 and 3 bolts a minute over a much shorter distance.
The arrows from a longbow, taking into account the weight/velocity ratio, could penetrate a suit of armour (whereas a musket ball could not). I sometimes take visiting school children on historical tours of our village church and church yard. One question I always ask is 'what tree in this church yard saved England?' Just a small three letter word - I get oak, ash, elm etc but rarely the great yew tree. The branches of the yew had the flexibility and strength to make the long bow, some with 200 to 300 lb pulling weight. But the yew berries were poisonous to some animals and so they were regularly grown in church yards to save the farm animals and to give us a supply of yew wood for the bows. Even today you see many many yew trees in churchyards. Bowmen must have been unusually strong pulling back a 200 lb bow with three fingers on the string just below the notched arrow. Those three fingers were vital - the French cut them off when they could - the uncaptured English waved their fingers in the air - the famous or infamous two fingered salute !
Archery practice for all Englishmen was compulsory on the village greens on Sunday afternoon back in the middle ages and later.
The arrows from a longbow, taking into account the weight/velocity ratio, could penetrate a suit of armour (whereas a musket ball could not). I sometimes take visiting school children on historical tours of our village church and church yard. One question I always ask is 'what tree in this church yard saved England?' Just a small three letter word - I get oak, ash, elm etc but rarely the great yew tree. The branches of the yew had the flexibility and strength to make the long bow, some with 200 to 300 lb pulling weight. But the yew berries were poisonous to some animals and so they were regularly grown in church yards to save the farm animals and to give us a supply of yew wood for the bows. Even today you see many many yew trees in churchyards. Bowmen must have been unusually strong pulling back a 200 lb bow with three fingers on the string just below the notched arrow. Those three fingers were vital - the French cut them off when they could - the uncaptured English waved their fingers in the air - the famous or infamous two fingered salute !
Archery practice for all Englishmen was compulsory on the village greens on Sunday afternoon back in the middle ages and later.
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Good Morning from sunny Ontariio.
Thanks to RockfordIll for the wonderful lesson on long bows. We loved reading of the origin of the two-fngure salute.
Herewith our attepts for this week:
Mr. O
Shoe String
Feather Duster
Sparrow Hawk
Cuckoo Clock
Mrs. O
String Along
White Feather
Hawk Nose
Cuckoo Spit
Good luck everyone.
Thanks to RockfordIll for the wonderful lesson on long bows. We loved reading of the origin of the two-fngure salute.
Herewith our attepts for this week:
Mr. O
Shoe String
Feather Duster
Sparrow Hawk
Cuckoo Clock
Mrs. O
String Along
White Feather
Hawk Nose
Cuckoo Spit
Good luck everyone.
I was taught archery, in the mid to late 1950's at my prep school by a man then in his late '80's, using a Victorian yew longbow. He always insisted that the index finger on the draw hand was above the nock of the arrow, not all three below. And like you we used a pin as a sight, moved up and down and sideways (according to windage).
As to the "two finger" V sign I have added this from Google:
......pleased to discover a PDF version of Wavrin’s chronicle, hosted by the quite wonderful people at La Bibliothèque nationale de France. The quote that seems to have started this whole myth; appears in the English translation (found in the Fifth Volume of Book One – page 203 of this PDF document) as follows:
“…And further he told them and explained how the French were boasting that they would cut off three fingers of the right hand of all the archers that should be taken prisoners to the end that neither man nor horse should ever again be killed with their arrows. Such exhortations and many others, which cannot all be written, the King of England addressed to his men”.
Whilst the Middle French original reads like this:
“En oultre leur disoit et remoustrait comment les Francois se vantoient que tous les archiers Anglois qui seroient prins feroient copper trois doitz de la main dextre adfin que de leur trait jamais homme ne cheval ne tuassent. Teles admonitions et pluiseurs autres que toutes ne puis escripe fist lors le roy d’Angleterre a ses gens.”
So maybe we should be waving three fingers at Johnny Crapaud!
As to the "two finger" V sign I have added this from Google:
......pleased to discover a PDF version of Wavrin’s chronicle, hosted by the quite wonderful people at La Bibliothèque nationale de France. The quote that seems to have started this whole myth; appears in the English translation (found in the Fifth Volume of Book One – page 203 of this PDF document) as follows:
“…And further he told them and explained how the French were boasting that they would cut off three fingers of the right hand of all the archers that should be taken prisoners to the end that neither man nor horse should ever again be killed with their arrows. Such exhortations and many others, which cannot all be written, the King of England addressed to his men”.
Whilst the Middle French original reads like this:
“En oultre leur disoit et remoustrait comment les Francois se vantoient que tous les archiers Anglois qui seroient prins feroient copper trois doitz de la main dextre adfin que de leur trait jamais homme ne cheval ne tuassent. Teles admonitions et pluiseurs autres que toutes ne puis escripe fist lors le roy d’Angleterre a ses gens.”
So maybe we should be waving three fingers at Johnny Crapaud!
Strix - you are quite correct of course - my leather finger guard had one wide part for two fingers and a narrow part for the index finger above the arrow. I noticed my mistake when I reread the script but thought (foolishly) that noone would notice - the moral is never to underestimate the ABers !
J
J
Interesting Strix - I presume this is your source...
http://
I didn't realise the Agincourt/ cutting fingers off story was a myth, and, as they say, a bit of 1990s post-hoc rationalisation.
http://
I didn't realise the Agincourt/ cutting fingers off story was a myth, and, as they say, a bit of 1990s post-hoc rationalisation.
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