Can people change?

[Oneeyedvic]

Following on from the capital punishment thread:

Can people change? I am certainly a different person to who I was 10 years ago. Some of my core values and beliefs have changed. I am sure I am not the only one.

Therefore, when someone commits a heinous crime such as murder, should life really mean life?

Do people really believe that once someone has commited a crime, they can never change?

In a different thread, someone mentioned that casatration should be a 'treatment' for paedophiles. If this 'treatment' works, shoudl the paedophile also be released - after all he is 'better' now!

[coyn]

In certain circumstances life should mean life, for example Ian Brady, Robert Black, Dennis Nielson, Donald Nielson and Harry Roberts to name a few.

I dont believe that murder should automatically be natural life in jail, each case is different but the penalty generally needs to be drasticly increased, the average sentence served for murder here is only 13/14 years and in my view that is hopelessy inadequate.

[Chessman]

Of course people can change, but as far as punishments for crimes, I think that before making a judgement, you should bring the crime to a personal level, ie, what if it was a close relation that had been raped or murdered?, that might make you viewpoint change.

[woofgang]

yes people can change, including criminals. BUT the sentence is enacted to recognise what they have done. I would suggest that any change would include a proper feeling of remorse and thus the person should recognise the justice of their sentence and accept it.

As for castration, it doesn't take away all sexual and related feelings and as such is not a "treatment" for paedophillia.

[Oneeyedvic]

Chessman - I don't think that punishment should be made personal - otherwise we may as well start having a militia instead of a police force and have mob rule. If you agreee that people can change, then surely life can't be life. But if you do allow personal feelings to be taken into account, life will always mean life.

Woofgang - not sure if castration would or wouldn't work. If hypothetically it did though (and by that I mean it took away all desire) - should they be freed once the treatment had worked

[woofgang]

umm well yes but I stick by my point that in this context "change" also indicates remorse and therefore a willingness to accept punishment for previous acts.

There is also the issue that while there is undoubtedly a sexual aspect to paedophilia, as I understand it, it is more complex than that and removal of desire would not guarantee that an offender would not continue to abuse children in other ways

[metagirl]

I think people can change. In regards to how this relates to prison sentences, we first have to ensure that the punishment/sentence fits the crime (and there is no doubt). I personally have a problem with someone serving an entire life sentence if they are no longer found to be a threat to society. I have had a lot of contact with convicts and the prison system because of some familiy members, and I can honestly say that prison is not a good place for people and if you use it as a first resort instead of a last one, you will end up creating more hardened criminals.

If we believe in rehabilitation then the government has to make sure that prisoners are rehabilitated and that includes offering mandatory educational programmes, religious/spiritual services, counselling and other social and psychological services in prisons. Otherwise, they just pick up bad habits and even worse contacts while in the clink!

[Chessman]

Oneeyedvic, of course, we are all entitled to our views, but a crime is a crime, and all crime is personal to someone, would you turn the other cheek if your mother, sister or child had been raped or murdered, and the perpetrator said he was sorry, your looking at families being destroyed, broken hearts, the cosequences of the crime are immense. I certainly wouldn't.

[Oneeyedvic]

Chessman - am not sure that I am really following you. What is it that you are suggesting.

As you say, if you take it to a personal level, what is enough? Is giving someboday a life sentance enough? What about killing them?

Personally, I can't see anyhing is going to undo what has been done, and no punsihment will be severe enough (and I mean some people see killing someone as more humane than sentancing them to life)

[Chessman]

Oneeyedvic, I think you've got it in one, I never mentioned it, because it wasn't in you post, and also, it has been gone over a few times before, but yes, I am, and always have been, in favour of capitol punishment, obiously only for certain crimes. But I do agree with you, there are some people who, no matter what the crime, will forgive, i'm just not one of them

[El D]

In a civilised society (as Doestoyevsky said we can judge society on how its prisoners are treated) the judicial system exists on two levels - first as a punitive method; those who break the law must be punished. Second as a rehabilitation method; those who break the law must be shown the error of their ways. If we lose the second part then those who break the law will never feel part of society, they will always feel alienated and we will create a whole class of criminal that owes society nothing.

I am afraid chessman if you bring things to a personal level you lose all sense of rationality. Emotions are not justice. What other decisions do you make based on your emotions?