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Do all God's creations go to heaven ?
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Every living organism, we are told, has been created by God .
Are they all of equal value ?
Do they all qualify to go to heaven ?
Are they all of equal value ?
Do they all qualify to go to heaven ?
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When a theist is asked why God allows bad things to happen the answer is
" It's not God's fault he gave us Free Will "
If God created you he gave you your will. You could be weak willed or strong willed. Therefore your actions are governed by the will God gave you.
You may have a good or evil nature . Either way it was given to you by God.
So God if he exists is ultimatly responsible for what happens in the world.
" It's not God's fault he gave us Free Will "
If God created you he gave you your will. You could be weak willed or strong willed. Therefore your actions are governed by the will God gave you.
You may have a good or evil nature . Either way it was given to you by God.
So God if he exists is ultimatly responsible for what happens in the world.
kassee #Do animals have a conscience ? I dont think so ! #
I don't think so either but I doubt an imaginary deiity has anything to do with it. I would suggest culture is the main factor and in particular our feelings of empathy. The term conscience is difficult to define.
Animals lack our intelligence to emphasise with other organisms to the same level as us but do express strong emotions.
As you go back in history our level of empathy and conscience has changed.
Early man put survival first . There was little room for conscience.
Today in some societies the killing of babies because they are of the wrong sex or deformed is common. In war we kill/maim millions. In the OT God killed millions . Not much conscience there. Do you have a conscience when you enjoy your lamb chop or battered cod ?
I don't think so either but I doubt an imaginary deiity has anything to do with it. I would suggest culture is the main factor and in particular our feelings of empathy. The term conscience is difficult to define.
Animals lack our intelligence to emphasise with other organisms to the same level as us but do express strong emotions.
As you go back in history our level of empathy and conscience has changed.
Early man put survival first . There was little room for conscience.
Today in some societies the killing of babies because they are of the wrong sex or deformed is common. In war we kill/maim millions. In the OT God killed millions . Not much conscience there. Do you have a conscience when you enjoy your lamb chop or battered cod ?
i am amazed by the absolute certainty with which some people have answered the question that animals dont have a conscience or souls ... like it an obvious fact! - some even seeming to add a 'dont be ridiculous' tone to their responses.
if its to do with conscience, awareness, soul etc etc - how to you account for the numerous stories of animals acting what we perceive to be 'out of character' - like wolves or apes raising human children? they know this is not of their species, but they know its baby and needs care.
they are wild, they have not been domestocated or trained - but they still do this rather than just eat it.
dogs that walking for miles to get help for a person trapped ...
if you can train the natural wildness out of an animal surely there must be some thought and conscience there?
i have watched a child torment a dog terribly - and if an adult did the same things theyd probably go for them - but that dog seemed to know that that is a baby, it is little and knows no better.
they also know when a person is possibly a threat to their owners and will react - there is no natural instinct for this, as their would be with their own babies... so where do they get it from ? we dont train dogs to protect us the same way we train them to sit etc
my two cats hated each other and avoided each other - but they were sort of brother and sister 2 years apart ... but one day i witnessed one cat getting attacked by another bigger one ... and watched as the other cat came out of nowhere, cleared about 200m of the street in seconds and leapt on the other cat and went ballistic on it.
somehow these cats knew they were 'related' and even thought they hated each other, they felt a bond as they lived in the same house.
why? its much the same as many human relationships.
i think its supremely arrogant and typical of religious convenience that people think only humans have souls. they just cannot accept they are not as special a species as they like to think they are.
if its to do with conscience, awareness, soul etc etc - how to you account for the numerous stories of animals acting what we perceive to be 'out of character' - like wolves or apes raising human children? they know this is not of their species, but they know its baby and needs care.
they are wild, they have not been domestocated or trained - but they still do this rather than just eat it.
dogs that walking for miles to get help for a person trapped ...
if you can train the natural wildness out of an animal surely there must be some thought and conscience there?
i have watched a child torment a dog terribly - and if an adult did the same things theyd probably go for them - but that dog seemed to know that that is a baby, it is little and knows no better.
they also know when a person is possibly a threat to their owners and will react - there is no natural instinct for this, as their would be with their own babies... so where do they get it from ? we dont train dogs to protect us the same way we train them to sit etc
my two cats hated each other and avoided each other - but they were sort of brother and sister 2 years apart ... but one day i witnessed one cat getting attacked by another bigger one ... and watched as the other cat came out of nowhere, cleared about 200m of the street in seconds and leapt on the other cat and went ballistic on it.
somehow these cats knew they were 'related' and even thought they hated each other, they felt a bond as they lived in the same house.
why? its much the same as many human relationships.
i think its supremely arrogant and typical of religious convenience that people think only humans have souls. they just cannot accept they are not as special a species as they like to think they are.
Joko
//i have watched a child torment a dog terribly - and if an adult did the same things theyd probably go for them - but that dog seemed to know that that is a baby,//
Interestingly that so many dogs have mauled children, and even killed babies.
//i think its supremely arrogant and typical of religious convenience that people think only humans have souls//
Depends on what you think a soul is. But I agree, animals are souls, just as humans are souls.
//i have watched a child torment a dog terribly - and if an adult did the same things theyd probably go for them - but that dog seemed to know that that is a baby,//
Interestingly that so many dogs have mauled children, and even killed babies.
//i think its supremely arrogant and typical of religious convenience that people think only humans have souls//
Depends on what you think a soul is. But I agree, animals are souls, just as humans are souls.
truthabounds - as noted - so do many many more humans ... who really should know better...
have you forgotten much of history? it seems one of humans favourite pasttimes is killing!
and regarding dogs - they are carnivores, natural hunters, and if it wasnt for domestication and being fed by us, they would hunt and kill anything that moved for food - much like any other carnivore - so the fact that they dont says a lot...
and the fact is - so would we ... our anscestors did it...
point is animals have a consciousness, they have thoughts and feelings and can learn just like us - even rats and mice can learn basic things - and who knows how they feel?
dogs, elephants and probably many other animals have been known to pine for months when their owner/family member dies ... they feel sadness, loyalty, protection etc.
some animals mate for life and will never take another mate if the other dies - how is that a 'natural instinct'?
nature would never limit procreation in that way, so it must be purely down to choice - and love
they are not mindless soul less automatons
have you forgotten much of history? it seems one of humans favourite pasttimes is killing!
and regarding dogs - they are carnivores, natural hunters, and if it wasnt for domestication and being fed by us, they would hunt and kill anything that moved for food - much like any other carnivore - so the fact that they dont says a lot...
and the fact is - so would we ... our anscestors did it...
point is animals have a consciousness, they have thoughts and feelings and can learn just like us - even rats and mice can learn basic things - and who knows how they feel?
dogs, elephants and probably many other animals have been known to pine for months when their owner/family member dies ... they feel sadness, loyalty, protection etc.
some animals mate for life and will never take another mate if the other dies - how is that a 'natural instinct'?
nature would never limit procreation in that way, so it must be purely down to choice - and love
they are not mindless soul less automatons
whiskeryron
// mibn2cweus,What a pity that after 13.7 billion years there were evidently not enough of them to go around. :o/ //
Sorry don't know what you mean please explain.
WR.
12:45 Mon 08th Oct 2012
Some fish are worth filleting . . . I think it's probably best to throw this one back into the pond.
// mibn2cweus,What a pity that after 13.7 billion years there were evidently not enough of them to go around. :o/ //
Sorry don't know what you mean please explain.
WR.
12:45 Mon 08th Oct 2012
Some fish are worth filleting . . . I think it's probably best to throw this one back into the pond.
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