take thats mark owen ian curtis jibe

[joko]

I have just read that ex-Take Thats mark owen was live on stage singing an ian curtis song - and weirdly dressed up like curtis(!) - and decided to grab his tie and rise it up above his head at arms length, eyes closed, with his tongue hanging out, in a mock hanging.

unsurprisingly, it went down like a lead balloon. (though i suspect half the audience wouldn't have got the reference)

is this what has-been pop stars do in order to try to be taken seriously as a rock act these days?

if you can't sing, you can't sing! and if your musics crap, your musics crap - no amount of mocking a dead man, while trying to steal his act, is going to change that.

so take that owen!

[paddy_36]

Seems a pretty stupid thing to do given the cult status of Ian Curtis and Joy Division.

Take that, indeed...

[gary baldy]

This is absolute nonsense!
The real story is that he did the tie thing early on in the gig and he was just dancing and 'expressing' himself and someone snapped him lifting his tie up and it could (repeat -could) look like he was hanging himself. This was two or three songs before he did the Joy Division track. Some bright spark put 2 and 2 together and got a ridiculous sensationalist story!

[joko]

GB - I think you have been reading his PRs attempt to get out of it!

I have seen the picture with my own eyes - he is pretending to hang himself - he is pulling the tie tight, his tongue is lolling to the side and his eyes are shut - and he is wearing a grey 'school' shirt and black tie - like curtis wore.

[Ward-Minter]

I saw Lloyd Cole (I think at the old Hammersmith Apollo, or somewhere else in London) soon after Eric Clapton's son fell out of the window.

Cole made some joke about the boy landing in the front row because the crowd were a little boring.

I found it funny (because I laugh at anything, however sick) but I must say you could hence forth cut the atmosphere with a knife.

[gary baldy]

Besides - i cant claim to have known Ian Curtis but i think he would have found this whole thing quite funny. I am also sure that those who did know him are not so precious as to protect his memory to such an extent that this 'incident' would offend them.

[gary baldy]

Joko - I'm not listening to the PR. This 'incident' happened in Manchester and there was review the next day in the local paper without a mention of it (and i know someone who was there and no one batted an eyelid). It was only a day or so later that someone (a national newspaper i think) picked up on it.

[joko]

Don't get me wrong, I am no great fan of curtis and am definitely not trying to protect him - just thought the whole thing was pretty lame - to dress as him and then do that!

Beyond feeble.

MO is just a failure resorting to cheap tricks to get column inches.

Have any of you actually seen the pictures?

[gary baldy]

This such a non story i cant believe so much has been made of it - does no one remember Chris Morris in The Day Today showing a hanging skeleton and introducing it as Ian Curtis?
I saw the photograph in our local paper and as i said it just looks like he is very hot and he is adjusting his tie (albeit very dramatically).
The facts have been so distorted that it is reported that he did it during LWTUA - which he didnt and there are quotes from 'sources' saying he was even dressed like Curtis - He had a shirt and tie on for crying out loud! If i was judging an Ian Curtis lookylikey competition i wouldnt let him past the first round!

[Ruby_Tuesday]

As a fan of Mark's for some time and having been to many of his live shows I have to say this "story" was made up by The Sun. Mark does that gesture whilst singing his OWN song Believe In The Boogie. The line is "pleased to meet the son pulls himself undone, life can weigh a ton" - it's a gesture about weighing a ton and he's done it for ages. It's nothing to do with the Joy Division cover.

The Sun don't like Mark and are always looking to discredit his character. He's such a nice guy this is the only thing they can attack. Mark would never disrespect another human being let alone another musician, so any normal person would know this was rubbish. They found a picture from his live show and made a story round it to make him look like a bad person.

If you don't like his music that's your choice. But many of us do. If you've never bothered to listen to any then don't comment as you don't know what you're talking about. Many of his album tracks are fantastic, and probably would have made better singles but that's not up to me. His live shows are excellent. If you've followed Mark as long as I have you'd know the nice guy you saw win Celebrity Big Brother is the nice guy in person. I have met him and to think he'd do a jesture mocking another artist is just so far from the truth it doesn't even register.

Oh and it is a free country and Mark can wear a shirt and tie in his act if he wishes. So do Greenday, Franz Ferdinand and many many others. It's currently fashionable and nothing to do with old bands. Many artists are influenced by old bands in their dress and music so don't single Mark out for criticism.

Just remember he does have fans out here and we won't stand by while tabloid journalists (I use the term loosely) make up something to suit a picture they found and can't even match it up to the song it belongs to.

[joko]

ruby tuesday - i have heard plenty of his music, and i have met him in a professional capacity, not as a fan - and you are right - he is a nice bloke.

However, this story obviously has a few differing perspectives - some think he did it, others don't - i suppose we will never know the exact truth - but you have to admit it looks pretty bad.

perhaps it is all concocted, and knowing the press, its very possible - but i'll reserve my opinion until i see actual footage, with sound, of the gig - and if he does it every time it will be in videos, won't it?

[Ruby_Tuesday]

So Joko - you've based your whole slagging off of Mark from that photo? This is how things get misinterpreted and now that story is reproduced all over the net. One story made up by the Sun to go with the picture. Just remember this is The Sun we're talking about. If it's about taking sides with someone I care about against a tabloid newspaper just looking to make a cheap story cos Mark's in the news recently with Take That - I'm firmly on Mark's side. Just saying "his music's crap" is hardly a defence. Alot of people like yourself have just jumped on a bandwagon. As someone else mentioned (who had also been to his gigs) no-one batted an eyelid at the time because it was part of his own line from his own song - nothing to do with Ian Curtis. The worst thing about this is people believe Mark would do such a thing. He throws many shapes when he performs - this is nothing unusual. Just taken out of its context of the song it belongs to, Believe In The Boogie, you could make up any story you liked. If you were that bored. Oh and a word of warning. Mark recently sued a paper from defamation of character and anyone else who reproduced the story. Let's hope he can't be bothered with this one. For alot of people's sakes.

[joko]

ruby - my comments were based on the pictures, and articles from a number of papers and websites and eye witness reports. I have never read the sun, so cannot speak about its pages

when i said 'it looks bad' i didn't mean 'looks' literally from the photo!! its a turn of phrase - i meant seems.

I am prepared to accept it may not be true, the papers are not exactly adverse to making stuff up. But many people who were there say they were disgusted. And the pictures don't look like 'dancing' or 'gyrating' - they look like he is mock hanging himself!! whether you believe the story or not , you cannot deny that!

I would love to believe its not true, and perhaps my reaction was strong because i have met him, twice in fact, and chatted and had a drink, that i was so irked by it as i couldn't believe he could be so stupid.

maybe you are right - i sure hope so - but without further evidence etc - i cannot deny that he looks like he's pretending to hang himself, dressed as ian curtis and, 'could' be singing one of his songs.

perhaps you have some links to fuller stories or other pics or video clips or evidence or something?? - if so i'd like to see it.

has mark himself said anything?

(and by the way the last bit of my original post was meant to be a bit of a joke. i actually think his music is not too bad - though its not great is it?)

[Ruby_Tuesday]

Hi Joko - You see people are basing whether they believe this or not from what they've read, like yourself. Unless you've actually spoken to anyone who was there you can't believe anything. The whole Sun story was based on an untruth. That he did that gesture at the end of his Joy Division cover. He did not. He did it during his own song Believe In The Boogie - the "life can weigh a ton" - therefore the gesture was misinterpreted. Also, the quotes they say are from fans sound a bit odd to me - I've many friends who are fans and have met up with alot of them at Mark's shows. Doesn't sound like their sort of speak - you know you get to know people? If you don't like Mark's music - I do actually I have all 3 of his albums - then that's fine but it's not a reason to just pick up on a story because you don't like his music is it!

Especially a story that lacks any truth. The Sun were trying to link Mark's weighing a ton gesture with the Joy Division song - he does cover that song but he did not do that particular gesture at any time during his performance of that song.

Mark has actually said he didn't do a mock hanging but that gets cast aside as a "PR job" so Mark's comments haven't been printed. The reason for that is they don't want their nasty little story to be seen for what it is. Based on a lie.

Anyway, I can' t be arsed to carry on with this. I've said my bit. People can believe what they like. I'll always stand by what I know of Mark - as a performer and a person and that is he'd never disrespect anyone by doing something so juvenile.

[Ruby_Tuesday]

joko - here's a link to Mark's official site on a thread about this subject. Mark's Webmaster has commented (the people who run his website are his management Team so it's from the horse's mouth).

As you can see there are real fans who were there and they have commented to.

Whilst you're there maybe you'd like a mooch round the people who really matter - his fans.

http://moomessageboard.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/340105013/m/9311024941

Hope this helps anyone who has the wrong impression of Mark. Best wishes Joko.

[joko]

ruby - ditto - i can't be arsed either. we will never really know, as we have people from the two extremes - loyal, ardent fans, and newspaper hacks speaking "the truth".

i am happy to accept that, even if he did do it, he probably didn't realise the significance of the gesture and how it could be perceived by people who don't worship him.

i will have a look at that site, though the words of fans will likely be biased anyway - quite as they should be though.

peace