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Is A Commitment To End/reduce Violence Against Women Contrary To Islam?
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The Muslim Brotherhood seems to think so. Do you?
http://
In the spirit of fairness, it's worth noting that we can't actually see this (apparently grossly offensive) document because it has not yet been agreed. The objections that the Brotherhood raise to it are that it supports sexual freedoms for women, and their right to abortion, and that it pledges support for the rights of homosexuals.
Instead, they insist on a clause which would allow every country (including ones with worsening records on violence against women - like, say, Egypt), to choose how to implement the document "in accordance with their own laws and customs."
Is this a reasonable suggestion? Should the UN listen?
http://
In the spirit of fairness, it's worth noting that we can't actually see this (apparently grossly offensive) document because it has not yet been agreed. The objections that the Brotherhood raise to it are that it supports sexual freedoms for women, and their right to abortion, and that it pledges support for the rights of homosexuals.
Instead, they insist on a clause which would allow every country (including ones with worsening records on violence against women - like, say, Egypt), to choose how to implement the document "in accordance with their own laws and customs."
Is this a reasonable suggestion? Should the UN listen?
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So certain of their faith are they, that they never seek to question its own underpinnings. Instead, everyone else is either wrong or "deceitful".
Given their association, and given their commitment to their religion I suppose such attitudes are inevitable, but it is this sort of action that saddens me - people willing to countenance the continuing oppression of fully half the population (more, if you include male homosexuals) in order to fit with their particular version of religion.
Really and truly - organised religion is a dragging anchor on the social, moral and cultural development of humanity. Islam is the worst, by virtue of the violence committed in its name, but the attitudes and doctrines of the catholic church are as oppressive - they just do not utilize violence and fear to enforce them.....
Given their association, and given their commitment to their religion I suppose such attitudes are inevitable, but it is this sort of action that saddens me - people willing to countenance the continuing oppression of fully half the population (more, if you include male homosexuals) in order to fit with their particular version of religion.
Really and truly - organised religion is a dragging anchor on the social, moral and cultural development of humanity. Islam is the worst, by virtue of the violence committed in its name, but the attitudes and doctrines of the catholic church are as oppressive - they just do not utilize violence and fear to enforce them.....
Objecting to "sexual freedoms" and abortion is not the same as objecting to a commitment to end violence against women. Sexual freedoms may include the pill and greater freedom of sexual expression. The Roman Catholic Church objects to the pill and abortion. It may not be wildly keen on sexual expression; it certainly objects to homosexual activity.
//Is A Commitment To End/reduce Violence Against Women Contrary To Islam?//
Yes it is – and it’s for the good.
//The Brotherhood urged women’s rights groups not to be “lured by phony calls for civilized behavior and by misleading and destructive processes.”//
I presume by civilised behaviour the Brotherhood means an end to female genital mutilation, to forced marriage, to child marriage, to a woman’s place in society as less than that of a man, and as a possession and chattel of a man. An end to all of that and women being allowed the right to make their own choices in every aspect of their lives would indeed be destructive to the abomination that is Islam – and the sooner it comes the better. The Catholic church is not to be commended by any means, but where treatment of females is concerned, its faults pale into insignificance when compared to those of Islam. Islam honoring women? What a joke! Shame it’s not funny!
Yes it is – and it’s for the good.
//The Brotherhood urged women’s rights groups not to be “lured by phony calls for civilized behavior and by misleading and destructive processes.”//
I presume by civilised behaviour the Brotherhood means an end to female genital mutilation, to forced marriage, to child marriage, to a woman’s place in society as less than that of a man, and as a possession and chattel of a man. An end to all of that and women being allowed the right to make their own choices in every aspect of their lives would indeed be destructive to the abomination that is Islam – and the sooner it comes the better. The Catholic church is not to be commended by any means, but where treatment of females is concerned, its faults pale into insignificance when compared to those of Islam. Islam honoring women? What a joke! Shame it’s not funny!
-- answer removed --
lots of links into this piece, Muslim Brotherhood doesn't seem to like what has been proposed,
http://
http://
and as bad, you won't perhaps agree, is that i see the same thing happening here, i am not suggesting we are likely to get a Muslim Brotherhood as a ruling party, at least not yet, but some of the Islamic faithful have exactly the same attitudes towards women here, and that is not acceptable at all.
With Sharia Law now part of our society, who is to say what rights many Muslim women have in Britain. I don't hold with the notion that this is going to go away, either in Egypt, or indeed in Britain.
With Sharia Law now part of our society, who is to say what rights many Muslim women have in Britain. I don't hold with the notion that this is going to go away, either in Egypt, or indeed in Britain.
FredPuli43
/// Objecting to "sexual freedoms" and abortion is not the same as objecting to a commitment to end violence against women. Sexual freedoms may include the pill and greater freedom of sexual expression. The Roman Catholic Church objects to the pill and abortion. It may not be wildly keen on sexual expression; it certainly objects to homosexual activity. ///
So much better to criticise the Roman Catholics eh Fred, than respond to the female genital mutilation, forced marriages, and child marriages, along with Islam's other vile treatments of women?
/// Objecting to "sexual freedoms" and abortion is not the same as objecting to a commitment to end violence against women. Sexual freedoms may include the pill and greater freedom of sexual expression. The Roman Catholic Church objects to the pill and abortion. It may not be wildly keen on sexual expression; it certainly objects to homosexual activity. ///
So much better to criticise the Roman Catholics eh Fred, than respond to the female genital mutilation, forced marriages, and child marriages, along with Islam's other vile treatments of women?
aog,just read the link. The headline is not born out by the text.
The points which the Muslim Brotherhood make are specific :
sexual freedoms for women and the right to abortion “under the guise of sexual and reproductive rights.”
In its strongly worded statement, the Brotherhood also decried the document’s defense of homosexual rights, which are not recognized in Islam, and the equating between children born in and out of wedlock.
Now, that does not amount to an attack on a commitment to end or reduce violence against women, does it? If you think it does, please explain how. It is expressed in the same kind of language "an attack on family values", as is used by the Roman Catholic Church ( and other Christians too). I take it that you agree, as I do, that the Church is entitled to say what it does about the sanctity of marriage, about homosexuality, about abortion and about sexual freedom.
Incidentally is genital mutilation in the Koran or other Islamic teaching?
Now, you may say that the points are carefully worded but we can only take from them what they say.
The points which the Muslim Brotherhood make are specific :
sexual freedoms for women and the right to abortion “under the guise of sexual and reproductive rights.”
In its strongly worded statement, the Brotherhood also decried the document’s defense of homosexual rights, which are not recognized in Islam, and the equating between children born in and out of wedlock.
Now, that does not amount to an attack on a commitment to end or reduce violence against women, does it? If you think it does, please explain how. It is expressed in the same kind of language "an attack on family values", as is used by the Roman Catholic Church ( and other Christians too). I take it that you agree, as I do, that the Church is entitled to say what it does about the sanctity of marriage, about homosexuality, about abortion and about sexual freedom.
Incidentally is genital mutilation in the Koran or other Islamic teaching?
Now, you may say that the points are carefully worded but we can only take from them what they say.
you only have to read this to wonder at man and in some cases women's inhumanity
http://
http://
They have been around a long while, and have made major encroachments in public and political life, some on here have been speaking about them for a long while as advocates for regressive behaviour and and subjugation of women, their ideologies do not sit with modern societies, and indeed are taking some countries backwards instead of modernising..
Fred, //Incidentally is genital mutilation in the Koran or other Islamic teaching?//
The Koran specifically forbids the alteration of Allah's creation - but circumcision is recommended by Mohammed (whose words in this instance clearly override Allah's instruction) for both males and females. All Muslim men are circumcised and in many societies, Egypt included, female circumcision is commonplace.
As far as homosexuality and sexual freedom for women is concerned the church and the Brotherhood are bound to agree - they're each steeped in the superstitious and barbaric oppression of the Dark Ages. However, they don't agree on the method of punishment for offenders and hence, anyone who defends the Brotherhood's stance should seriously examine their moral code and think about what they're actually defending. Shameful!
The Koran specifically forbids the alteration of Allah's creation - but circumcision is recommended by Mohammed (whose words in this instance clearly override Allah's instruction) for both males and females. All Muslim men are circumcised and in many societies, Egypt included, female circumcision is commonplace.
As far as homosexuality and sexual freedom for women is concerned the church and the Brotherhood are bound to agree - they're each steeped in the superstitious and barbaric oppression of the Dark Ages. However, they don't agree on the method of punishment for offenders and hence, anyone who defends the Brotherhood's stance should seriously examine their moral code and think about what they're actually defending. Shameful!
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