Should the police be armed and allowed to shoot to kill in such circumstances?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....pub-summer-riots.html

Here we have a group of thugs purposely out to entice the police into a confrontation, and then to attack them with missiles and shoot at no only the police on the ground but also in the air.

/// 'The purpose of all this was not to loot or to steal. Nor was it mindless vandalism. The purpose, the common purpose, was to behave in such a way that the police would come to the scene and then to attack the police.'The intention was to endanger
life. ///

One has to ask why, did they expect to get away with their crimes, or was this a 'death wish'?

Are our prisons such comfortable places that they are now 'fighting' to get locked-up?

[sp1814]

"Yes they would be, if only there didn't have to be almost a lengthy inquiry before they were dispatched into these situations"

That's not how it works.

A senior officer will request armed response and they will turn up. Once it's established that public safety is being breached, SO19 will be dispatched (according to my copper mates).

"I don't think you are naive enough to think that things haven't changed, the present day situation calls for much stronger measures than a whack from a truncheon."

I assume, although you can correct me, that you're referring to gang violence? I don't see how arming the police would have any affect on this...unless you seriously ramped up the number of front line officers. I'm talking about armed police patrolling the streets in this kind of get up:

http://www.eliteukfor...lice/co19-shotgun.jpg

Dunno...I don't like the idea at all.

[mushroom25]

on the BBC 6 o clock news, the 6th defendent was described as "a 17 year old who cannot be named for legal reasons".

yet only 10mn later, BBC Midlands Today not only named the 6th defendent, but posted a photo of him too.

How does that work???

[shoota]

The big problem's with armed response units are:
1.Travelling time - if someone is shooting at you you need defence/retaliation then not when a car arrives from central London. I believe that in London the standard response time is within 15 minutes. A lot can happen in 15 mins.
2. Numbers - if something big does happen you then don't have enough units to deal with a second incident without a call out which takes hours.

[Eve]

I think there is a time and a place and a worry I have is that it will lead to more idiots being armed in tit for tat, especially for police who are alone whereas in specialist units from what I've seen they work in teams and cover each other.

I've seen plenty of police with guns around Manchester and when I lived in Leeds. I always found the Leeds lot to have a more aggressive presence whereas GMP seem to strike a better balance, a low key watch and wait until needed though there is then the issue of response time if needed. You often see what I assume are backup vans around when they are expecting trouble to back things and and if there is a good likelihood of trouble they are already out in force (certain football matches, a face off march between fascists and anti-fascists).

However you then get things like the Manchester riots (very muted police presence around when I around before getting the hell out of there when it kicked off) and Rangers fiasco where it all went wrong. They seem to have learnt from some of the football related problems by working with shops to stop the sale of alcohol for certain periods around matches, I guess to reduce the need for problems which require more aggressive policing.

I remember a BBQ I went to with friends outside a house in a rather rough area of Salford. We were attacked by a gang of local kids and they were causing damage and the police were called. We had taken refuge inside and I went outside to meet them on arrival (the kids having legged it when they heard the sirens) to be greeted by a number of police men jumping out of a van and standing round the garden in guns! There are a fair amount of shootings round that area though!

I have a huge amount of respect though for people who join the police to keep us safe with the amount of danger they can face.

[mikey4444]

Absolutely not, under any circumstances ! The police can hardly be trusted to issue dog licences, let alone walk around with dangerous weapons. One poor chap, the newsagent Ian Tomlinson, managed to die by being hit with a cudgel, or riot stick as they are sometimes called. God knows what the policeman involved would had done with a gun !