Can Someone Please Date This Format

[Segilla]

One sandwich short of a picnic
A spanner short of a tool kit.

I'd have said it started to be uses about 20 years ago.

[stuey]

I don't know how old you are, Segilla; however, these types of sayings are much older than twenty years. I'm using some literary liberty here when I say that Shakespeare once suggested Richard III as crying out "My kingdom is short of one horse."

[BlackadderV]

Much older. Before decimal currency was introduced (1971) it was common to hear, "He's a penny (or tuppence) short of a shillling.

[Segilla]

Very good stuey. I like that one.

[maurice]

Yes, I remember hearing that sort of use in my childhood in Sussex, too (and I'm very ancient)!

[BlackadderV]

Another one was, "He's a card short of a full deck".

[Segilla]

(Are we all insomniacs?). Thanks for the responses.
Born 1934, but I don't recall such expressions going back so far.

Here's another poser. Until about 1970 - 1980 it was always:-
'It's up up to you'.
Suddenly it seemed to change to 'down' though I still use 'up' .

I don't doubt it originated in the States, but how far back?

[BlackadderV]

I think there is a subtle difference, though I may be wrong. "It's up to you" suggests that you may make a choice, whereas, "It's down to you" means you must make a choice, alternatively, that the outcome is your responsibility.

[janbee]

Also, he's not rowing with all his oars in the water.

[janbee]

Also the hamster's at home but the wheel is no longer going round.

[Sycamore3House]

'He/she is as much use as a chocolate fire guard.' My grandma used this expression in the 1970's and she was in her eighties then. An older friend used to say 'he/she is as good as a chocolate teapot'. Don't expect there are many fire guards around now but maybe a few more teapots.

[janbee]

The lights are on but nobody's home.

[Mosaic]

So what about 'he's got all his chairs at home' meaning, I think, he's crafty.
Encounterd this in Accrington, but they speak their own lingo there. Love to know if anyone else has come across it.

[magicmick]

We called a workmate Joe Bungalow as there was nothing up top.

[jno]

I think 70s-80s, Segilla. Also not the sharpest knife in the drawer, a wallaby loose in the top paddock (that's an Australian one, I assume)

[BlackadderV]

Earlier still, as I can remember, "Not the full shilling" from the 50s.

[maggiebee]

You just beat me to it BlackadderV. My dad used that expression.

[nannybooby]

my sister's favourite is
Knitting with one needle

while I prefer halfpenny short of a shilling...but alright on her own side !

[Segilla]

BlackadderV.
While accepting that there can be a difference between 'up' and 'down', (After he chopped the tree down he chopped it up for firewood), if I'm right about the more recent appearance of 'down to you', it has become universal. 'Up to you' is rarely heard (except in my home!).

If the subtle difference had been felt to be a necessity would the change have had to wait till towards the end of the 20C before making its appearance.

[maurice]

(A bit late, but...) Mosaic: funny you should mention that one (which I'd never heard) --- in German they say "He hasn't got all his cups in the cupboard" meaning "not all there"!