Why Most Countries Have Suspended Oxford Vaccine And Uk Gov Is Still Forging Ahead With The Vaccine?

[OldChestNuts]

Guardian just reported more deaths due to the vaccine and the UK gov thinks the British lives are are worthless compared with other nations?
I know the UK gov still argues the deaths vs the benefits are far greater in benefits. But I think the real benefits is the vaccine and the gov need to back the vaccine even its in question.

Are all other countries too stupid to suspend the vaccine or the UK gov putting lives at risk for the older age as they no longer a contributor to the society?

Any thoughts and view?

[Peter Pedant]

// It isn't quite the point, pp.//

I think it is - on a n=1 trial - do you want to be in the cohort that has a 8 in a million chance of dying or 1 in fifty?

[pixie374]

"Could have" we don't know. They are right to delay, if there is any doubt. There is a big difference, morally, from people dying naturally, from a virus- or healthy people being given a vaccine and dying. All the stats in the world won't validity killing healthy people. It doesn't work like that.

[pixie374]

Like I said, pp, stats are only useful when they aren't personal. Everyone is different. And no, I don't want to be the 1 in a million... If I get the virus, that's one thing. Dying from a vaccine... is badly ironic.

[woofgang]

but pixie, if I have mangled the figures correctly, less people get csvt who have been vaccinated than would normally?

[Sqad]

I say this again, with the utmost respect to AB, the concern is not for clots inthe heart, lungs or cerebral vessels but for CVST(cerebral venous sinus thrombosis) and herein lies the uncertainty.
CVST is rare, very rare, I have NEVER seen a case in my life.
Now if the incidence of this debilitating and potentially fatal condition is on the rise, however many cases, it IS a cause for concern.

[lankeela]

Unless of course these countries are using it as an excuse for not having enough vaccines or having organised enough vaccination rollout.

[pixie374]

I agree, woof. Stats are always helpful. But- we all know we expect a difference between a risk that is unlikely to kill you and a deliberate vaccine unlikely to kill you. Vaccines need to be totally safe, as they are given to healthy people.

[TheChair]

This reminds me of the ridiculous argument that some people trotted out when seatbelts were made mandatory: it didn't matter how many lives they might save, supposing someone died because the seatbelt trapped them in a burning car?

[pixie374]

Woof, but there are ethics too. Nobody is responsible for a lethal (sometimes) virus. But someone is responsible if a vaccination kills you. It isn't just statistics.

[pixie374]

Thechair, I guess that is a point. Claimimg you have saved millions of people... but directly killed some, matters to those who are killed.
You have to be careful what you are responsible for. As there can be negatives too.

[ToraToraTora]

The chair 22:19, morons will always find a way to justify their bowlocks, to themselves at least!

[Cloverjo]

I read that the number of blood clot cases are the same as being struck by lightning. My sister and I have just had the AZ. I’m not remotely worried.

[Paigntonian]

bednobs: Would have thought 'most' was self-explanatory.

[woofgang]

pixie374 "I agree, woof. Stats are always helpful. But- we all know we expect a difference between a risk that is unlikely to kill you and a deliberate vaccine unlikely to kill you. Vaccines need to be totally safe, as they are given to healthy people."

no vaccine EVER has ever been totally safe.

[woofgang]

lankeela "Unless of course these countries are using it as an excuse for not having enough vaccines or having organised enough vaccination rollout."

oo surely not I mean people would NEVER do that would they?

[woofgang]

Sqad "I say this again, with the utmost respect to AB, the concern is not for clots inthe heart, lungs or cerebral vessels but for CVST(cerebral venous sinus thrombosis) and herein lies the uncertainty.
CVST is rare, very rare, I have NEVER seen a case in my life.
Now if the incidence of this debilitating and potentially fatal condition is on the rise, however many cases, it IS a cause for concern."

Sqad I understand your concern....if my stat mangling is correct, it seems like less people per million are getting csvt who are vaccinated than people who get it "normally"

[sanmac]

Canada is still using the Oxford vaccine, but only for those people 55 and older.

[Sqad]

Woofy
/////...if my stat mangling is correct, it seems like less people per million are getting csvt who are vaccinated than people who get it "normally"/////

That is certainly not my understanding.

[pixie374]

Woof //no vaccine EVER has ever been totally safe.//
That's my point, and several have disagreed. But there is ia difference in responsibility when you are advocating a vaccine, to someone who is fine. It's your fault.
Somebody getting a virus, is nobody's fault. You have to be so sure with vaccines, and not just that they are safer than a virus.

[sanmac]

We were both sort of "relieved" to be informed that we were getting the Pfizer vaccine last week; however, we would have taken the Oxford one if it was the one on the "menu":)