Heaven & Hell

[Theland]

Are you hopeful / worried about going to heaven / hell?

[RATTER15]

Theland, so you examined the evidence in the Bible? so you are happy that the virgin Mary was in fact a virgin and not some woman who put it about a bit and got caught out and then claimed "I am a virgin" well she ain't going to be telling everybody the truth is she!! and in those days it is likely they would have believed her, and the son that followed had to be something special, well they believed the virgin bit didn't they!!

Doesn't it make a lot more sense. OK its a bit basic but you're getting my drift aren't you!!

[raysparx1]

Well if God is so almighty & allseeing, why does God allow the suffering and cruelty that goes on,why doesn't God put an end to it, and make it a peacefull and happy world ?

[Theland]

Spurslady - I do indeed have grey hair, but alas, I shall probably have to wait for Christmas before I become the proud owner of a "cardy", (if one of the kids think to buy me one.)
The Mrs share most of what I believe, but we differ on a few points of doctrine. As for footy, I played years ago but was never much good, and have never really been interested in supporting a team, especially nowadays, as they are all just money grubbing businesses. I lived for thirteen years within a stones throw of Anfield, and two stones throws of Goodison, but, if you'll pardon the expression, "I never saw the light."

[wizard69]

raysparx1...because according to the bible , god is the creator of all this crap (isaiah 45:7)but christians deliberatly and routinly ignore all the verses that they dont like

[noxlumos]

Ok Theland, thanks for taking the time to try to answer, I really do appreciate it.
What I wanted I think ahead and above of anything else (like not being there, or it not happening) was for God to just to let me know he was there, real, present or tangible in some way. I was a very young child at the time and believed in God ( being brought up devoutely in Ireland) and I just wanted some reassurance from him, that I wasn't alone in all this, and I didn't get it.Not a glimmer. Here's the Catholic guilt thing,lol, I even felt bad afterwards for "bothering" him until it finally dawned on me some weeks later after many more similar incidents that he couldn't have answered me beceause he simply didn't exist...

[raysparx1]

wizard, why don't God overrule all the evil then,why allow it in the first place? God should keep us all in order,but it ain't gonna happen is it.

[wizard69]

theland...just curious but what denomination are you?If I had to guess i'd have to say that you are a pentecostal.An evangelical anyway

[whiffey]

It doesn't flaming matter if Mary was a virgin !!!! The word translates equally to "young woman"

To me, it matters not a whit if she was, nor if wine transubstantiates to blood at communion, nor if Constantine saw a flaming cross in the sky.

You can get as indignant about pain and suffering as you like, none of this changes the questions I ask myself as do many others, and you can't supply any answers beyond indignation and contempt that I was stupid enough to even start the journey.

[wizard69]

raysparx1...we are talking about a backward belief system here.The ancients believed that everything was of god(s) including evil.Ours is not to reason why!

[Carakeel]

spurslady, thank you so much. You are a darling xx.

ray, you are so sweet to speak as you do about Mrs. Sparks and me. Have to say though that Mrs. Sparks and I are also very, very lucky to share our lives with such loving and caring men!!! I'm absolutely sure she would agree. Big hugs to you both xx :o)

[Carakeel]

i love you to bits ratter!!!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Theland]

Theland was brought up in the Church of England, but stopped attending as soon as I was allowed to make my own decision. That was it for years, apart from marrying in church, then turning my back on it again. About eight years ago I felt that it was not enough to read and pray, must join the fellowship of a church. I went back to a C of E for a while but became disillusioned with the watered down wishy washy "Everyones A Winner" doctrine they taught. I walked out and attended a Gospel Hall fo a while. At present I do not attend anywhere, but may go back to the Gospel Hall. Category? Evengelical Christian.

[spurslady]

Wow how do you find the time to do anything else?

So have you read every page in the bible?

[raysparx1]

Thank you Carakeel, xx

OK wizard I will just accept all the crap that goes on, Thank you God you are doing a great job, I don't think !!!

[spurslady]

And you are not Mr W~M trying to pull the wool over our eyes?

[whiffey]

A golden rule in life is, if you don't understand something, take the pi$$ out of it and get the chanting mob behind you.

[wizard69]

theland...you'v certainly started a thread here, i'll give you that. I wonder just how much of the bible you have actually studied in any detail? You have stated that you read the bible with the intention of finding holes.How detailed did your research go?Did you study atheist literature in your search or did you just stick to religious books.did you read the bible cover to cover WITHOUT the aid of biased commentaries.How did you reconcile a belief in a god of love with the monster of the old testament? just curious

[pie+mash]

I'm sure it's Billy Graham in disguise....that's my belief...

[Theland]

Wow! That's a lot of info you ask for. I work with my hands in a factory, so I'm not an intellectual by any means, and certainly not as well read as some of you people seem to be. I have not even read ALL of the Bible, I must say I get bogged down sometimes, and I read it so irregularly. So i'm NOT practicing what I know I ought. But I DO know that I am far far from perfection, and in fact am probably a greater sinner than you all put together. What a burden! I suppose in anger I wanted to pick the Bible apart to get my own back on those who had found peace, when I had not. But, I tell you the truth, I have never found anything in the Bible that could not withstand criticism. When I have found something that appears to be a contradiction, or error, I have found, sometimes much later on, an expalanation that was rational and plausible.

[whiffey]

Yes wizard69 this is potentially a great thread. I shouldn't answer a question directed at the author, but in my turn I have read the bible twice page to page. Bits of it I hate (Joshua !), but other bits keep me coming back. Isaiah's foretelling of the crucifixion and the division of the clothes, this is the stuff of drama. Psalm 22.