Behavioural Problems

[willowsky]

I have a son with ADHD and Aspergers. He is 13 and has an IQ of 140 with the attention spam of a goldfish (unless its something he likes and involves a screen, ie gameboy, playstaipon, computer ect.) I suspect he has ODD (oppositional Defiant Disorder) which makes him violent. It's like living with a well meaning axe murderer! But the "experts" refuse to diagnose this as they say it makes no difference as there is no wonder drug or help that will change him but I feel we need to get the labels right at the start. Can any one give me some input on this.

[willowsky]

I should have mentioned he has been prescribed ritalin but it makes little difference to his behaviour.

[ursula62]

My nephew is like that. He is on ritalin but he doesn't like taking it as he says it makes him feel like a zombie.

I don't think the labels really help, apart from giving you some form of reassurance that you are not imagining it.

What you have to do is find the key that works for your son.

My sister was advised to use positive attention rather than negative, and to only allow access to the playstation/Xbox as a reward for good behaviour. But standing up to a 17 yr old who's taller and stronger than you is easier said than done.

Is there a support group for parents near you? Maybe your GP surgery has details of one? Or your local library. Talking to other parents in the same boat really helps you make sense of what is happening to your child.

[morg_monster]

I agree, I think we pigeonhole children too much. OK, so your son is violent towards others, will it really help if there is a label for this?  Is it because it will make you feel better if it means you can say "My son has ODD" as an explanation to other parents, when your son hits another child?  I can see how that would be easier, but really would it make a difference?  I have worked as a LSA in a school with a fair few children with all sorts of problems including Aspergers, but I'm not a parent or anythign so I'm not going to pass judgement.  Maybe just something to think about - honestly this might make a difference to you but really, will it make a difference to him?  I'm sure it is an american thing, giving all sorts of personality problems these Very Proper Medical Names, what about my 4yr old cousin who is a bit selfish with his toys, is he IR: "Interactionally Reluctant"?  Sorry if this seems to trivialise your son's problems - I don't mean to, I just think it is needless and while obviously your son does have real medical problems, this trend can single out children who are perhaps simply overboisterous or hot-tempered as 'different' which I'm sure can lead to more problems if they are otherwise 'normal'.  We all have our own personalities don't we!

[OBonio]

Here here, morg_monster!  One day, everyone will have their own label for their own personality traits.

As for ODD, I think my brother would have been diagnosed with this as a youngster and probably still today.  In fact, he has diabetes and when his blood sugar gets too high, he gets quite confrontational and violent.  All other times, he is fine.

[francea]

I think finding someone who will officially diagnose your son could help immensly.  My brother was always terribly behaved at school and used to always get in loads of trouble and could never explain why, he simply couldnt help it. When he began to get increasingly violent and started harming himself he was refered to a child psychiatrist who immediatly diagnosed him with ADHD and Depression.  Since then simply by knowing theres a reason he behaves as he does hes made such an improvement.  Therapy to help with his agression also made a lot of difference.  Not knowing why he was violent at times simply made the problem worse, with a 'label' he was given information and began to understand himself.  And meant at school hes treated with more tolerance, the major difference being he can sit exams by himself so he can tap or get up and walk around as he needs to.

[Dark Angel]

I know a 14 year old boy who has Aspergers. He seems quite intelligent and spends lots of time on the computer. At times, he can be the most charming boy, and though I haven't seen him being really rude, his parents always worry that he will be rude to somebody.

He does answer abruptly sometimes, but in general seems to be concerned about other people.

He speaks in a monotone, has to be reminded to look at people when he speaks to them, and to modulate his voice, (i.e.not talk too loud). Also, he takes the literal meaning of sayings like, "take it with a pinch of salt". When I read an article about Aspergers, these seemed to be standard symptoms.

[willowsky]

 In our case the total combination is lethal. But it is the violence towards myself (mum) and his siblings that worries me the most. It seems to be escalating and no professional seems able to offer any type of solution for it and he is often rather scary.

[ann_h]

Willowsky,

My son is the same, he's 7 now and I'm just beginning to get him seen by a paediatrician and CAMHS.

As far as I know, Asperger's and ODD/CD have to be managed through behavioural therapy, although there is sometimes a good result re the violence using antipsychotics such as Risperdal.

I"m constantly looking about for answers, so I'll post here for you anytime I find anything useful, and let you know what my docs say about the ODD.

Meanwhile, try to stay strong - I know how exhausting it is, and how it breaks your heart to think of his future without intervention.

Ann

xx

[willowsky]

Anne

Why can no-one understand that I just want the labels right for a good reason. If there is ODD involved as I suspect well that' a different ball game from simple aspergers or ADHD as you might know. While I hate to label him but if you don't then either they get the wrong treatment or as with my son hardly any treatment. When you think of the 4 factors involved it seems overwhelming. Aspergers with ADHD, ODD, and an IQ of 140 in a 12 year old boy, it does not bear thinking about never mind living with it.!

I have spent 18 months now at the mercy of the medical profession and all I have seen is my son getting worse. They are not with him 24/7 nor are they privy to the horrenous scenes that occur with regularity in my home.

I have 4 other children, all older than he, but all either scared or resentful of him  or both. When he gets taken out for 2 hours, 2 days a week the difference to the household is tangible. the silece that follows his departure and the feeling of relieved peace is unbelievable. As is the immediate return of tension the minute he returns. I see the other children put on thier emotional armout and grit thier teeth as we once again await the first outburst.

He rules our every waking moment with a tightly clenched manipulative iron fist and he does realise how he controls us most of the time.

It was so heart warming to read a message from someone who understands.

Thank you

[willowsky]

Anne

Why can no-one understand that I just want the labels right for a good reason. If there is ODD involved as I suspect well that' a different ball game from simple aspergers or ADHD as you might know. While I hate to label him but if you don't then either they get the wrong treatment or as with my son hardly any treatment. When you think of the 4 factors involved it seems overwhelming. Aspergers with ADHD, ODD, and an IQ of 140 in a 12 year old boy, it does not bear thinking about never mind living with it.!

I have spent 18 months now at the mercy of the medical profession and all I have seen is my son getting worse. They are not with him 24/7 nor are they privy to the horrenous scenes that occur with regularity in my home.

I have 4 other children, all older than he, but all either scared or resentful of him  or both. When he gets taken out for 2 hours, 2 days a week the difference to the household is tangible. the silece that follows his departure and the feeling of relieved peace is unbelievable. As is the immediate return of tension the minute he returns. I see the other children put on thier emotional armout and grit thier teeth as we once again await the first outburst.

He rules our every waking moment with a tightly clenched manipulative iron fist and he does realise how he controls us most of the time.

It was so heart warming to read a message from someone who understands.

Thank you

[ann_h]

I'll try and explain why I think ODD is a real condition, and not just naughtiness/spoilt etc.

If you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder, you may logically know that it isn't necessary to turn the vase round half an inch. But you can't beat the desire to do it.

In my son's case, he craves conflict as a compulsion, the conflict seems to be its own reward. Positive reinforcement DOESN'T WORK. Failing to pay attention to negative behaviour makes negative behaviour worse until it becomes so dangerous you have to intervene. Praising a picture drawn results in a screaming tantrum and the picture destroyed. He doesn't want praise, he wants conflict.  

He knows his behaviour means he doesn't get treats, that noone will play with him, that I am almost bankrupt through being a single parent with mortgage and unable to go out to work and sometimes there's nothing but weetabix for tea. He wants the reward for good behaviour, but still cannot stop himself being disobedient, rude, aggressive, deceitful and manipulative.

 

It's so bizarre, so illogical, which makes it seem unmanageable. There may well be ways of breaking the child's negative thought and behaviour processes, but meanwhile it is important to have it diagnosed if only so that the emotional and physical needs of the rest of the family can be met through respite and so on.

That is my experience anyway.

[jessebhunt]

Willowsky:

Has your son been seen by an adolescent psychiatrist, or simply by a doctor who is quick to prescribe ritalin?

ODD patients can be treated with individual psychotherapy and cognitive-behavioral therapy (to develop more effective anger management and assist problem solving, respectively)

A psychiatrist may also be able to properly diagnose your son.

Perhaps you will find this site helpful: http://www.oppositional-defiant-disorder.com  

[willowsky]

He has been diagnosed by a child psychologist. Whenever I say I want a second opinion I get poo poooed and told it's not possible. I'm convinced it's ODD not aspergers and ADHD but they won't listen. My boy sounds so much like Annes it's not funny. All I see is a specialist with advice that basically gives my son positive rewards for bad behaviour which DOES NOT HELP. They have us all in Family Therapy now but won't tell me how to handle him and won't listen when I say the family is normal whenever he's taken out by social services. Now they've advised me to call the police when he hitsa out or damages property, it's ludicrous