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Society & Culture4 mins ago
What can be done to 'detoxify' he flag ov St George
Only 61% of English respondants reported feeling pride in the cross of St George.
The figures in Wales and Scotland (for THEIR nation flags are much higher).
Could this be because the BNP and EDL have politicised the nation symbol of identity, and thereby altered its meaning?
Is there an equivalent of the BNP in Wales and England? Have they sullied their own flags by allowing them to be associated with right wing groups?
Why did we allow this to happen again (it took YEARS for the link between the Union Flag and the Nation Front to fade).
I've heard from a couple of sources on AB, that you cannot be black or Asian and call yourself English - is this another reason behind the fragmenting of our country? No matter how much one assimilates, no matter whether you wear the best M&S suit, drive a Ford and live in Surrey, some white Britons will always see you as (the BNP puts it) 'a resident alien (and I don't think the BNP were referring to ET at this point...)
What's the answer?
The figures in Wales and Scotland (for THEIR nation flags are much higher).
Could this be because the BNP and EDL have politicised the nation symbol of identity, and thereby altered its meaning?
Is there an equivalent of the BNP in Wales and England? Have they sullied their own flags by allowing them to be associated with right wing groups?
Why did we allow this to happen again (it took YEARS for the link between the Union Flag and the Nation Front to fade).
I've heard from a couple of sources on AB, that you cannot be black or Asian and call yourself English - is this another reason behind the fragmenting of our country? No matter how much one assimilates, no matter whether you wear the best M&S suit, drive a Ford and live in Surrey, some white Britons will always see you as (the BNP puts it) 'a resident alien (and I don't think the BNP were referring to ET at this point...)
What's the answer?
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Wales and Ireland and even Scotland have links to their patron saints (relics of St Andrew are alleged to have been in Scotland since the 10th century).
But St George is a nobody, famous only for killing a non-existent animal, and an all-purpose saint of Canada, Bulgaria, Georgia (of course), Egypt, boy scouts and syphilitics (among many others). People who protest about the decline in Englishness seem surprisingly willing to boast of a patron saint who isn't remotely English at all.
Perhaps the general public would be more prepared to rally round if they could find a saint who actually embodied Englishness... even St Patrick was born in England (probably).
But St George is a nobody, famous only for killing a non-existent animal, and an all-purpose saint of Canada, Bulgaria, Georgia (of course), Egypt, boy scouts and syphilitics (among many others). People who protest about the decline in Englishness seem surprisingly willing to boast of a patron saint who isn't remotely English at all.
Perhaps the general public would be more prepared to rally round if they could find a saint who actually embodied Englishness... even St Patrick was born in England (probably).
I worked with a chap who once (and very eloquently) complained that over the years, the 'English identity' had been subsumed by foreign influences.
I asked him a few questions about his lifestyle, and quickly found out that his favourite restaurant was Persian, his car was German (Audi), he has a discount card from Starbucks, his trainers were American, as too were his t-shirt (Levi's and Abercrombie & Fitch), his favourite shows were The Wire, Mad Men and Curb Your Enthusiasm, the music he listened to was American R&B and his flat was mostly decorated with items from Ikea.
He didn't see any irony in that.
Oh, and whilst we're were talking, he was drinking an Australian lager.
I asked him a few questions about his lifestyle, and quickly found out that his favourite restaurant was Persian, his car was German (Audi), he has a discount card from Starbucks, his trainers were American, as too were his t-shirt (Levi's and Abercrombie & Fitch), his favourite shows were The Wire, Mad Men and Curb Your Enthusiasm, the music he listened to was American R&B and his flat was mostly decorated with items from Ikea.
He didn't see any irony in that.
Oh, and whilst we're were talking, he was drinking an Australian lager.
hc4361
Nope - it's definitely the flag of St George they've despoiled. It's so annoying, because it took years for the Union flag to become disaasociated with rig wing groups, and just as the image of THAT flag was restored, the flipping BNP and EDL adopt the flag of St George as their statement of identity.
If a group of lads moved next door and pinned the St George's Cross in all their windows, I would (at least initially, until I'd got to know them) be wary of them.
That's a terrible indictment.
Has and other country stood by silently whilst their nation flag to be adopted by extremists?
Nope - it's definitely the flag of St George they've despoiled. It's so annoying, because it took years for the Union flag to become disaasociated with rig wing groups, and just as the image of THAT flag was restored, the flipping BNP and EDL adopt the flag of St George as their statement of identity.
If a group of lads moved next door and pinned the St George's Cross in all their windows, I would (at least initially, until I'd got to know them) be wary of them.
That's a terrible indictment.
Has and other country stood by silently whilst their nation flag to be adopted by extremists?
Don't think the English think of themselves as the English. They think of themselves as the British and feel no need to distinguish themselves as English . England, historically, politically and economically has long been dominant and Britain's government is in England. .
. Americans show this dominance another way. They often call Britain, 'England'. I once saw an American book on ' England's Great Golf Courses'which listed St Andrews, Carnoustie and Troon; about half the courses shown were in Scotland.
. Americans show this dominance another way. They often call Britain, 'England'. I once saw an American book on ' England's Great Golf Courses'which listed St Andrews, Carnoustie and Troon; about half the courses shown were in Scotland.
Fred, England has been the 'dominant' partner - usually - among the nations of Britain for the simple reason that its population dwarfs those of the other three combined. Thus, one can understand why, in historic times, foreign nationals such as Americans - and many Englishmen! - referred to the whole Union as 'England'.
A classic example was Nelson's signal at the Battle of Trafalgar about 'England' expecting every man to do his duty, despite the fact that his ‘British' vessels were manned by over 18,000 sailors, about one in ten of whom was not even British, never mind English! HMS Bellerophon alone, with a complement of 540, had twelve nationalities aboard, including Swedes, Danes, West Indians, Portuguese, Indians and even three Frenchmen!
In this day and age, there is surely no need for Americans (or Englishmen) to go on with the narrow approach to what our country's name actually IS.
As regards St George's flag, it has been sullied in exactly the same way as an innocent Asiatic religious symbol was hijacked by the Nazis and became the swastika. A pity, but there you go.
A classic example was Nelson's signal at the Battle of Trafalgar about 'England' expecting every man to do his duty, despite the fact that his ‘British' vessels were manned by over 18,000 sailors, about one in ten of whom was not even British, never mind English! HMS Bellerophon alone, with a complement of 540, had twelve nationalities aboard, including Swedes, Danes, West Indians, Portuguese, Indians and even three Frenchmen!
In this day and age, there is surely no need for Americans (or Englishmen) to go on with the narrow approach to what our country's name actually IS.
As regards St George's flag, it has been sullied in exactly the same way as an innocent Asiatic religious symbol was hijacked by the Nazis and became the swastika. A pity, but there you go.
I doubt the lack of interest in Englishness is anything to do with St Georges spurious connections with England - most people either a) dont know or b) dont care.
The lack of identification is nothing to do with the influx of immigrants diluting our sense of national pride. We're just less jingoistic I guess.
The lack of identification is nothing to do with the influx of immigrants diluting our sense of national pride. We're just less jingoistic I guess.
The patron saint of Ireland was Romano/British according to the experts, so not sure what flag they should hoist.
Many countries have laid claim to St George, not just England.
As to the English flag, I would be proud to display it at any time. I couldn't give a toss if it has been supposedly hijacked by the idiot EDL,
Besides i don't need a flag to make me feel English, i just am.
Many countries have laid claim to St George, not just England.
As to the English flag, I would be proud to display it at any time. I couldn't give a toss if it has been supposedly hijacked by the idiot EDL,
Besides i don't need a flag to make me feel English, i just am.
some interesting points there, patron saint of lost causes, indeed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_the_Apostle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jude_the_Apostle
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