Was Cromwell a goodie or a baddie? PS I know Guy Fawkes was a goodie!

[SSSid]

As Above!!!

[mike11111]

Interesting!

When the people of Ireland decide to portray Cromwell in a good light it might be time for us to reappraise him.

[jno]

the Irish opinion of him isn't the only one. He's still a hero to many English (as I recall, MarkRae loves him). Nonetheless, when the English had tried out both royalty and republicanism, they chose the former, presumably seeing it as a classic case of meet the new boss, same as the old boss. (Not really "the same" but just as oppressive.) Wrong but wromantic vs Right but repulsive.

[pugwashjw]

He was quick on the " old execution"...but he remains a politician...ALBEIT A DEAD ONE.
He at least showed the inequality of a monarch who changed the rules ona ' whim'.
Ans who has ever met a really 'good' politician.

[Famous5]

I was once taking a group of 9 year olds on a school trip to the place where I worked when one of them told me that Guy Fawkes was a suicide bomber

[emmie]

smart kid.

[emmie]

except he didn't die, then again he did eventually, which was of course pretty gruesome.

[NOX]

Just a belated suicide bomber then Em:-)

[emmie]

Nox, yes indeed, i didn't approve of his methods, and like as not he gave us one day of the year when we can set the gardens alight. Like relatives who poured petrol on the bonfire, whizz bang.

[jake-the-peg]

I'm quite fond of Cromwell

He's a very flawed hero but above all he followed his concience and worked for what he saw as the good of the country.

If you judge him by today's post enlightenment values he's a violent religious dictator but you can't really do that you have to judge him in by the standards of the day so all the cancelling Christmas and theatres stuff is a bit of a sideshow

People forget that he tried very hard to give England a country ruled by Parliament before he gave up and took over himself the country just wasn't ready for it there was no proper model and the countryfragmented much the way you see in Lybia or Syria today.

As for Ireland - Well if you've just fought and won a vicious and bloody civil war and won by the skin of your teeth and you find that the Irish have signed an alliance with the rump of your enemy well you're not exactly going to put on your kid gloves are you?

[emmie]

I don't think many Irish see it that way at all, i know i certainly don't.

[VHG]

As has already been said, there are two Cromwells in history.

Thomas Cromwell who worked for Henry the 8th

And Oliver Cromwell of Civil War fame.

Nobody has indictaed which one is being asked about here.

[jake-the-peg]

No I know they don't my wife and in laws are all Irish and they're brought up with a story of Cromwell as the devil incarnate.

There's no denying the treatment was harsh but many of the stories were exagerated to extremes.

Look at what other rulers did to those that rose up and opposed them - Ireland was trying to overthrow him and implant Catholicism in England - he neede to put down the rebellion in a way that wouldn't allow it to restart and he did that.

You may not agree with the picture of England he was working for but he was working for England

Compare that with the hedonistic Charles II - his interest in England was primarilly in serving his own personal whim.

[gness]

If it's Ollie I'm not over fond of him either.

[jake-the-peg]

If you're going to descend into pedentry VHG I can out do you - there are 3 you're forgetting John Churchill.

the fact of the matter is that Oliver Cromwell is such a towering and contraversial figure that everyone with half a brain knows that if someone talks about Cromwell, Oliver is meant unless specifically indicated otherwise

[gness]

Whoops. Three less than half brains then. :-) You sound in a grump JtP?

[jno]

ah, the sad old story of a people not being worthy of a great ruler. He should have dismissed the electorate and appointed another one.

[ichkeria]

"Thomas Cromwell who worked for Henry the 8th
And Oliver Cromwell of Civil War fame. "

And Richard Cromwell makes three ...

The thing with Cromwell in Ireland is, just because his actions are understandable from his point of view, it doesn't mean that the same cannot be true of those on the other side!

[craft1948]

I'm not so sure that he didn't want the crown Steve................anyway Ollie was a baddy, Charles II was much more fun.