Unruly son

[BigDogsWang]

My 7 year old son (only child) is constantly in trouble at School for hurting other children. My wife and I are at the end of our tether because we cannot work out why he is doing it. He is a lovely, happy, confident and loving child, and the love he receives from his family is immeasurable. His diet contains no nasty additives, and we do not smack him, although we do warn him that if he continues, we will. He used to be under the Doctor, but was taken off the register 6 months back as his behaviour had improved. But since his 7th birthday back in May, the reports coming from his school are horrendous, with incidents of unprovoked punching and pinching. The last thing I want is to put him on Retinol, as I don't believe in drugs being used on children for behavioural reasons. He knows what he does is wrong but doesn't know why he does it (sometimes he just sits there and lashes out without reason). Do I start smacking him (does this lower me to his level?), or is there some other way of getting him to respect his fellow classmates?

[BigDogsWang]

Sorry, I meant 'Ritalin'.

I think Retinol is a Face Cream!

[twiglet4frog]

when u say he was under the doctor until recently was that for a reason? did they find any problems at the time?? could it be ADHD or whatever it is called?

If it is any help i have a friend with a 4 year old that is a lovely lad and is ok around single kids but when in groups with other kids at playschool suddenly resorts to punching, strangling and pinching other kids and cant explain why he is doing it. he is now under a psychologist but they are so slow they reckon it could take them until he is 6 before they will fully work out what might be causing his problems.

Another best friend had the same problem with their 2 year old and it has taken 3 years for them to find out it is an additive problem and the whole cause was 2 things "Wotsits and Smarties" which he was having most days, and within 4 days of stopping eating them he changed completely!! now he is much calmer and like the average child! now for over a year!

Something will be causing it and i hope that someone can find the source of it so that u know how to tackle it.

[justineo]

Hi BDW, maybe the lack of responses to your question shows how difficult your situation is.  I've had a lot of experience with looking after children but have no training in psychological or medical problems.  Firstly, I don't think smacking your child will help.  I know that you're thinking of it as a last resort, but you must show him that violence of any kind is not how to solve problems.  When you talk to your son about it what is his response?  What sort of physical relationship do you and your partner have with him and is he aggressive when you play with him? 

[BigDogsWang]

He has been known to lash out at us occasionally. I read the report from his school when I got home last night, and there seemed to be an incident every hour or so, including spitting in a classmates face. When we ask him why he does it, he can't explain why he does these things and blames it on his Brain!!! I genuinely believe him. I think he gets bored quickly and can�t sit still for long. He has promised me that from today he will be good, but we�ve heard it all before. From tonight we are going to try him on Cod Liver pills to see if it helps him calm down and concentrate.
In answer to twiglets theory, he is not allowed sweets, and his meals consist of additive free ingredients. I am a bit of a chef, and the food served to him every night is wholesome, including vegetables, followed by a fresh fruit salad.
Another theory we came up with last night was my wife�s real father was a nasty piece of work who used to inflict pain on her mother (stubbing ciggies out on her, etc), so maybe it's in the Gene's.
God I hope not.

[libertie]

Sorry BDW I don't really have much to add as you and your wife seem to be doing everything you can! Is there perhaps something specific that your child hates about school, a particular child or even maybe his teacher! Maybe the school can refer you to a child / education psychologist, sorry not being much help here!  Anyhow best of luck!

[BigDogsWang]

Thanks libertie. His bad behaviour is sporadic. He can't hate his teacher as she's a nice old lady who does everything calmly and quietly. We don't have any trouble getting him to school in the mornings, so I don't think he hates it.

I'm beginning to think the only thing that will sort him out is for one of his classmates to punch him on the nose. I remember when someone did that to me as a kid and it put me right in my place (not that I was as bad as he has been).

[Hendrix55]

Is he an only/eldest child? If he is the focus of attention at home maybe it is hard for him to be one of a large group.

I think, like you said, the reaction of the other children is important - maybe he has adopted it as a way of dominating them.  Perhaps he finds the quiet old lady frustrating and wants a stronger more boisterous personality as an opponant.

As to knowing why he does it - he is young to be able to analyse himself and then articulate any insight he has.  Children tend to have concrete reasons/excuses (eg he pinched my crayon etc) for smacking another child; if he isn't giving these reasons, maybe it is a subconscious impulse that can be addressed with behavioural therapy. I'd want to steer clear of drug therapy too...

[BigDogsWang]

"stronger more boisterous personality as an opponent."

You may have a point there Hendrix. I am very firm but fair with him, and he knows not to give me any back chat. He is our only child, and as a result is showered with love by all his relatives. Maybe he thinks the world revolves around him too much.

[mystress]

Hi there,

I am coming ia bit late on this,because I wanted to see what others thought.

Aline in your post worries me "the love he gets from his family is immeasureable"

Do you think that he thinks that everyone does (and will) go on loving him regardless of what he does,or how he treats them. Is it possible you have "overprotected" him from anything nasty,and so he does not really know the difference?

Just a point.

[Curious_Me]

Hi Definately do not start smacking him - children learn so much from you and smacking will only reinforce an idea that violence is ok. Bad behaviour is often linked to attention seeking.......I would talk to teachers & try to reinforce giving attention (even over the top at first)  to all good/positive behaviour whilst ignoring bad.  If he lashes out at others remove him from situation to a safe place explain why.  make him stay in that place for 7 mins (same mins as his age) return him if he moves - do not get caught up in arguing with him, stay calm. Keep to a routine when he behaves badly he will eventually realise that if  he is good he gains positve attention - if he behaves badly he will end up on his own being ignored!! ....this really doeas work!  I am sure you are great parents.......and loving our children does not mean giving in to them, they appreciate being given clear boundries.  if you crack this now adolesence will be a breeze!!! Good Luck

[catra1]

I would ask for a re-referal to the GP re: behaviour say the problem is getting worse. Also ask the school if they can provide any input via a referal to the primary behaviour support team (most LEAs have one) or an advisory teaching service. Failing this ask if the school are willing to prioritise him for educational psychology involvement (itsunlikely at this point in the year anyone will see him till september but it is worth a shot). Also you could ask the GP for a referal to CAMHS (Child and adolescent mental health services) this is where he may have access to play therapy or a clinical psychologist (like Dr Tanya Byron off the TV) to try and uncover the underlying causes. the title of the service sounds quite sinister/scary but they do some good play based work with young children - the waiting list can be long so act now...

[BigDogsWang]

Thanks for your answers everyone. The varying suggestions just go to prove one thing: there is no simple answer. It also goes to show that being a parent ain't easy, and anyone who says it is, hasn't had children!

Anyway. The report from school yesterday was a lot better after our little 'talk'. We are hoping this will continue.

[undercovers]

dyslexia can produce massive frustration for children at that age - as it seems that everyone has worked out the solution to a puzzle that the child can't even comprehend. If he isn't progressing in this studies as well as you might reasonably expect maybe you could discuss this with his teachers - or better yet consider getting specialist tution for him. good luck for the future

[BigDogsWang]

Thanks for that undercovers, but we established a long time ago that he has no trouble reading. He read me a book last night so fluently that I would say he is above average. His maths is also very good and his writing is coming along nicely.

He is just very boisterous with other children to the point of hurting them. As I said earlier, I think this would change if another child lamped him one.

[mycatis]

Hi BDW I totally get what you mean about hoping it's not in the genes, I've mentioned my son's father before, he is a very violent guy, really vicious and cruel, anytime my son is aggresive I panic and worry that he will end up like his father it's scary isn't it?

[clairus99]

are you sure that he's not being bullied or has any reason to be troubled or stressed?

i'm less likely to suggest ADD (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); it's funny they didnt have that in our generation.

he may have a lot of energy and doesnt have a particular outlet - what about a hobby or something?  something physical like karate is good, as it also teaches respect for other people as well.  Or something more mentally challenging that he can get lost in like reading, puzzles, plane-making - something he can be passionate about.

[BigDogsWang]

We have thought about Karate, as it not only teaches kids how to defend themselves, it also teaches discipline. But we are worried it could work the other way and make him even more of a bully! He leads an active life; he attends football training after school every week, and also Beavers every Tuesday, but he even gets into trouble there for bullying.

You're damned if you do...etc.

[stoory]

BigDogsWang

sounds like a handful alright. I've spent a few summers working in the Stateas with ADD ADHD kids and the first UK camp for children with these sorts of behaviours has been set up for this year... you can contact them at www.attentionseekers.org. or http://uk.geocities.com/attentionseekers2002/what_is_att ention_seekers.htm for specific contact details.

Even if you are not interested in the camp I know that they are often involved with giving advice to parents who are at a loose end and have years of experience with these sorts of problems.

Hope it helps.

[BigDogsWang]

Thanks for that stoory. I will certainly give that some consideration. We have more immediate priorities at the moment though.

He was suspended from school yesterday.

[LordyGeordie]

At the risk of inviting the wrath of the liberal ABers down on me, I am in favour of smacking.

First off I would like to say that I am in my 20s and a fairly liberal type of bloke, not your average old-time hang-em, flog-em, 'it never did me any harm' sort of person.

However, I remember once when I was not much younger than your son hitting a younger boy who was staying at my house causing him to cry. I can't remember the reason why, if there even was one. I don't even think I knew what I was doing was wrong.

My mother then smacked me, not hard, across the back of my legs. While it did cause me to cry it was more for the humiliation because it was in front of the other boy than anything else.

My mother then explained to me that the reason she ahd punished me was because I had picked on someone younger than myself, so she had picked on me.

While I didn't necessarily know what I was doing was wrong when I hit the younger boy the lesson my mother had taught me stayed with and I still remember the incident vividly today.

I won't pretend it was the last time my mother smacked me, but I don't believe I ever bullied anyone ever again.