Are We A Lazy Nation?

[themorrigan]

In the UK we have long term unemployed yet certain factions complain foreigners are coming in and taking all the jobs -how can that be? If foreign workers are coming into the country and getting jobs why can't UK citizens get those jobs? why can't the long term unemployed be made to pick fruit and veg/clean public places/ work in airports and hotels? Is it Laziness? The jobs are there for the taking, there is no excuse for a healthy adult to be long-term unemployed.

[AB Editor]

Innocence does not suit you themorrigan.

[tamborine]

fgt, where ALL in a recession. Produce earn same as 5y ago. Service prices have been stagnant for 3y. Employers business costs have risen tho.

[Octavius]

And margins....particularly in construction.... are very very tight, hence loads of builders going poop.

[sue11]

Unfortunately from my experience I would have to put a lot of UK workers into the lazy category. A large amount of young UK workers seem more interested in their social life than attempting to do any work. They turn up late, go sick at the drop of a hat and scream that they know 'their rights' if you attempt to find out why they are not performing. This is in stark contrast to a foreign worker (mostly students) who are well educated and not only eager to work but to do a good job for you whilst employed.
I watched a reality series that was following workers in a shopping mall. One of them, a young 19 year old English man was employed by an independent sports shop retailer. He turned up late a couple of times and then spent a lot of his time hiding out in the stock room. His employer had CCTV cameras around and discovered what he was up to. He then gave him a pep talk to try to encourage him to do the job he was employed for. But when the worker retuned home at the end of the day, he complained to his mother who gave him every sympathy and told him his employers were being unreasonable! In reality she should have told him to get a move on and stop being so lazy! That seems to be typical of the type of young worker we find in our industry and does not encourage employers to give them a chance. There is also an extra cost to the employer in time spent having to manage the lazy workers who 'know their rights'. The employer has to ensure that they follow the correct legal procedure when dealing with these people or be faced with a tribunal claim. This is another good reason why you would choose a hard working foreign worker over a lazy UK one. If we could rely on UK workers as much as we can foreign workers, I would always choose to employ from the UK.
I also watched the 1949 benefits programme and was so impressed with the young disabled man who just wanted to be given a chance, I am so glad that he got a job in the end. The problem with employing anyone with a disability is the hoops that an employer has to jump through to ensure that they are providing the right kind of working environment for them. Apart from the risk assesments, you have to check that the hours they are working are suitable for their disability, the equipment you provide will not add to any health issues if it does the employer will probably have to buy other suitable equipment, you have to make allowances for the fact that they could be off sick more often than other employees and if they need medical treatment on a regular basis you have to allow them time off for this as well. I am not saying that any of these conditions regarding employing disabled people is wrong, but when you look at what an employer is faced with, no wonder they will take the easier option.
I am sorry that I have given such a dispiriting answer to your question, our own company do employ some fantastic young UK workers, but as a percentage these are far outweighed by the amount of available eager foreign students that are ready and willing to work.
Thanks
Sue

[sherrardk]

Are you allowed/supposed to pay people cash in hand?

[sue11]

Anything you do in an attempt to avoid paying any paye/ni with an employee is illegal. Or as a customer paying cash in hand to a company to enable them to keep it off the books is illegal. But of course it does go on!
We pay all our employees through the accounts, all legally but our paye and ni bill is eye watering!

[FredPuli43]

We may be getting a somewhat distorted view, in that any young man who comes all the way from some foreign country, with little English, to get work here may not be typical of his compatriots, and when he gets it, he values the job and the opportunity and works hard to keep the employment, whether working for himself or others. He has what used to be called 'immigrant mentality'. He may also be well educated. The lazy ones stay where they are !

[chrisgel]

Themorrigan - You seem to have answered your own question in your OP so I take it that you include yourself in the answer to "Are we a lazy nation?"
If you mean are there lazy people out there then of course there are but as a nation I would say we are as hard working as any other.

[themorrigan]

It is not illegal to pay anyone cash. Its not up to the one paying the money to ensure tax is paid -its up to the person receiving the money to declare it along with any other income. Someone could be paying tax in their job through PAYE and help the odd day on a farm weekends for cash in hand . The farmer is doing nothing illegal but if the worker does not then declare that income he is doing something illegal. Hope I've made that simple enough for sherradk to understand ;-)

[sherrardk]

Thanks for the clarification and the healthy dose of patronisation (still seems shady though).

[ummmm]

To be self employed, which you are if you get paid cash, is it no longer the case that you have to work for several employers?

[themorrigan]

yes Ummm to be self-employed you have to be available for work to other firms. We do not use casual labour very often as we have our labourer and a couple of apprentices on the books but sometimes you get a bigger job than employees can cope with and need a few casuals to help out. Its a normal practice in small Construction firms as you don't know what jobs are coming in and can't afford to keep permanent staff on the books if there is no work for them.

[ummmm]

Just a convo I had tonight. The company my son works for wants to put him on SE.....

He's 17...and to me that's a 'get out of all responsibility' which I'm not happy with.

[Cloverjo]

I agree, Ummmm. If he were a more experienced worker and knew he could get other work in any lean times with this company, it might be ok. Also, if he knew about bookkeeping, tax, NI etc. I think it's too much to expect a young lad to worry about.

[themorrigan]

I agree Ummmm if he works for the Company as SE he is technically not SE. There are rules which can be see on the HMRC pages as what is deemed SE.
this is a tool to determine if he could be classed as SE
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/esi.htm

[ummmm]

I've told him this but he wants the cash.

I shall find out next week the real arrangement and whether they will be deducting tax and NI...

[ummmm]

And if he has a contract....then I'll start my own thread (sorry) :-)