A very interesting point was raised on the Mathew Wright Show today

[Bobbisox]

Are foreign workers really taking our jobs?
or as a Nation, are we too lazy?
Who really is to blame?
The company's for exploiting foreign workers by paying them a lot less?
This is always an emotive topic so let me state here and now, I am not being a Racist bigot

[redman41]

A Lithuanian Lady who I bump into on occasions has 3 Cleaning Jobs to do every day and her Husband also has a low paid job locally. Her Son is studying at the local University.
They are minimum Wage Jobs which many locals are not interested in doing, but the Firms advertising these Jobs need to fill the vacancies somehow.
Yes, Foreign workers are taking up some of our Jobs but what can one do when the local Labour force turn their noses up at low paid work.
Jobs with a good living wage are hard to get with so many job applicants for each one.

[Bobbisox]

this I found to be true red, there was a guy on from Abersywyhe pah!
well somewhere in Wales, sorry for the spelling
He worked for on average £700 per week, his company opened the jobs to Polish workers for £300 for the same job, the Welsh man was forced out?

[ladybirder]

There was a TV programme on this bobbi and the Brits turned their noses up at the low paid jobs and when they did take them they were useless whereas the foreign workers made a decent fist of it.

[redcrx]

when those on more than minimum wage quit their jobs as they can earn more via benefits it does seem as if we should be greatful that some people (whether they be from the EU or not) are still prepared to do such jobs.

[Old_Geezer]

The problem with a subject such as this is that there is not a single group with single motives and affects.

But yes, or course there are foreign workers who see low UK wages as being attractive compared to what they can find at home, and so come here full of enthusiasm. Which means the local job market is affected and wages kept artificially low. This means lower paid workers who are native to this country see jobs they would take up were the pay & conditions at an acceptable level taken by others.

For sure there will be a section of society that were always too lazy to bother, and another section that have become so disillusioned that they can no longer find the enthusiasm to bother, but I don't believe that is the main driver to locals not taking up jobs.

In buying and selling a balance for the right price occurs when sufficient buyers exist to meet sellers needs, Except in the job market apparently it is different, Bringing in outside employees is apparently ok. All seems rather one sided.

The trouble is a company can always claim it is its responsibility to get things done well and as cheaply as possible, so apparently they can use whatever labour movement allowances the law allows. Regardless of what it does to the standards of the native population of wealth of the country as a whole.

But of course there are other groups of foreign workers too. Those who start businesses here, and those who bring skills learnt in a country where those skills were needed to work in a country where employers are willing to buy the skills rather than be bothered to train the staff properly.

[redman41]

That is bad Bobbi as many have Mortgages and a family to look after. When Foreign workers take over their jobs what is there left for them to do ?
It breeds resentment against the Employer and the Foreign Labour force.
If there were more Jobs then Applicants then there would not be a problem as such.

[Sqad]

This isn't a new phenomenon, as after WW2 jobs were going, but many Brits found them too low paid and menial and the Italians in the main, snapped them up.

[Old_Geezer]

*OR* wealth of the country

(hate this lack of edit facility)

[Bobbisox]

I found it strange that the resentment and anger was pointed toward the foreign worker, Why?
Because they were sending a lot of their money back to their country of origin and in so doing, were helping to build a strong financial situation there, while they saw ours depleting and crumbling

[Bobbisox]

but wasn't work very plentiful then sqad?

[McMouse]

Why should any employer pay more than the minimum wage if there are people willing to do the work? This issue does beg the question: Is the minimum wage too low and are benefits too high?

[lady-janine]

don't know if this is relevant but recently we (OH and myself) wanted some digging done in the garden (some holes for polytunnel supports (about 30cms square and 450-50 cms deep). offered cash no questions asked but even though we asked on several occasions in local no takers. would have been about 1 days work - but could have led to more if they were willing and had ddone a decent job. no takers at all. yet we know quite a lot of the people in pub not employed. now i know why they aren't.

[Sqad]

bobbi....initially yes, it was plentiful, but there were certain jobs that the Brits wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole....e.g working in kitchen, waiting on......

[Old_Geezer]

There is the rub, whilst labour movement is allowed from foreign countries, the local market is distorted, and the employer can stick to a minimum wage when the supply & demand system would otherwise have produced a fairer wage agreement.

[Bobbisox]

which brings me back to the OP
Are we a bunch of stuck up lazy sods?
or , is the minimum wage too low and the benefits too high as McM has said, good point btw.
Sqad they have the last laugh, there are many fine restaurants which have blossomed through the generations since the war, just by doing menial work

[sandyRoe]

I believe that there are a large number of foreign medical staff, both doctors and nurses, working here. By coming here to improve their own lives they deprive their homeland of their talents.

[anneasquith]

hi sandy, some doctors and nurses do study here and some come to gain valued experience and return to their countries better qualified,

[venator]

I used to manage an accountancy firm, where many of the staff were studying. we had Chinese, Polish, Indian & Middle eastern students along with English & even Welsh!

The thing I noticed very often was the difference in "work ethic" The Brits tended to be nine to fivers, with all sorts of excuses and attitude.

Foreign students got their noses down, and were keen to learn.

In our society in general, we seem to have become less self reliant - the welfare state saps the will of a huge number of people.

This is a pattern with developing countries - they flourish until a certain level of prosperity is reached, and ten the labour force start to demand a better lifestyle, and another country takes over.

Already in China, this is happening.

[Sqad]

sandy....that is very true, but without immigrants, the NHS would collapse completely.

NHS is used by foreign doctors to come over here, learn the trade, make their mistakes on NHS patients then go back to their parent country to set up in practice.

This has been going on for 50 years or more.

[Bobbisox]

so, does this mean, we teach, we pay and then they go home to practice?