Rare "man discussing feelings" alert!

[littleoldme]

I feel like a teenager for asking this, but here we go. Last October I met this young woman on a training course that we both attend once a week. I immediately felt an attraction to her although there is something of an age gap (I'm 40, she's 25). She's been seeing someone else since last summer - I don't know how serious it is as she's not the sort to broadcast her private life to all and sundry. That should have put me off, of course, and normally would have done, but as the weeks have gone by and I've got to know her personality, my attraction to her has grown. Suffice it to say, "behaving myself" and keeping my mouth shut - which I only do out of respect for the fact that she is seeing someone - is becoming more and more difficult. We get on very well, laugh a lot together, have similar musical tastes etc. She is just the type I go for, both in looks and character.

So, do I make a serious confession and risk putting a strain on our friendship, do I mention something casually in passing and risk sounding flippant, or do I continue to keep quiet and risk missing out on any chance I may have (I may not have one, of course)? Whichever I choose, if I get it wrong, I'm going to regret it. Help me out, agony aunts and uncles!

[andy-hughes]

There is a very simple rule in regard to women fncying men - one which every man should learn and stick to, and it's this -

If a woman wants you to come on to her, she'll let you know."

Women are experts at reading signs, so the chancea re she will know tou find her attractive. If she is not giving you signals that she'd like you to ask her out, then it's because she sees you as a friend, and is not interested in anything else.

The signals - non-verbal - are smiling at you and holding eye contact. Standing or sitting close to you. Touching you without needing to - a hand on your arm, that sort of thing.

The signals - verbal - include talking about outside interests in an inclusive way - "I like going to the cinema / theatre - how about you? That sort of conversation.

If you are not getting any of this, it'e because she is not putting it there, because she isn;t looking for you to act, so keep your dignity, and enjoy her friendship.

Things may change - keep your eyes open, but remember the golden rule which men break on a daily basis - just bcause you fancy her does not mean she fancies you back.

Hope this helps.

[B00]

Awww bless your little cotton socks LOM xxxx

I cant give you any other advice other than the excellent stuff already been given by Andy there ^, I just wanted to say hello to you, not seen you in a while and also that you sound adorable.

If she doesn't snap you up, she's obviously off her trolly xx

[littleoldme]

Cheers Andy - the voice of reason as always! You're right, women are excellent at reading signals, whereas us fellers are hopeless at it. ;-) I seem to get the non-verbal signals you mention, but not so much the verbal ones. Complicated things, these women.

Hi to you B00! Many thanks for your kind words, sweetie. ;-) I haven't been around much lately - work has been a bit mental. In fact, I should be writing a 2,500 word report for said training course right now rather than pottering about on here. Ah well...

[Sachs]

I'm sure she must know. Go for it. I'm sure she is always in your thoughts, make yourself happy!

[sqad617]

Question 1....are you married.
Question 2...is she married.
Pragmatic advice will follow on receipt of those answers.

[Sachs]

Sorry little,
did this lady tell you she was seeing someone in a roundabout way? How did you find that out? Did you ask her?

[tigwig]

I would tactfully bring the conversation around to her boyfriend and without making it sound obvious ask her about him. You could ask jokingly if she thinks he's the one or if she would marry him or something!
Depending on her reaction that should give you your answer. If she says something really negative about him and they aren't serious I would go for it.
Good luck.

[littleoldme]

sqad617: no to both questions. I'm not seeing anyone right now, so there's no problem on my side of things. ;-)

Sachs: as for finding out about The Obstacle - sorry, her boyfriend - he actually popped into our training course one afternoon to pick something up from her. She had mentioned having a (platonic) male flatmate, so I asked her if that was him, and she replied that he was her partner. I kept smiling...

[Beanmistriss]

I would just like to complicate matter by adding that not all women are good at reading signs. I am crud. Have got myself in some dodgy situations by not spotting them. Good luck though x

[sqad617]

andy has given you the sensible answer and I will give you the pragmatic one.

"The signals - non-verbal - are smiling at you and holding eye contact. Standing or sitting close to you. Touching you without needing to - a hand on your arm, that sort of thing.

The signals - verbal - include talking about outside interests in an inclusive way - "I like going to the cinema / theatre - how about you? That sort of conversation."

Maybe, or maybe not...never EVER think that you know women....you never do.
Ask her out and stop "pussyfooting" as in this game, you win some and you lose some. If she says YES...fine, if she says no, then nothing ventured nothing gained and then you can move on.

P.S...andy...by the way I am cr@p ay womanising LOL

[Velvetee]

She is probably just being friendly and interacting with you. Perhaps you could ask subtle questions about her boyfriend in general conversation and say something like "so when do you think he'll pop the question".

I was in a similar situation, where I became friendly with a man who is 30 years older than I am. I thought it was just a friendly situation, but he had other ideas and when he told me, I was quite perturbed and somewhat disgusted.

So you do need to tread carefully, so you don't ruin the friendship you have.

[littleoldme]

Thanks for your wise words, everyone.

don't ruin the friendship you have.

My single biggest fear, Velvetee, and the single biggest reason I haven't said anything so far. To be honest, I think it very unlikely that we would fall out over this - I'm not the pestering type - but I will tread carefully. Much as I'd like us to be more than friends, I'm not going to do anything that could lead to us being less.

[andy-hughes]

A word of warning here.

Stepping from friendship into relationship - even if she rejects you, is not something you can ever step back from.

She may handle it well, but your friendship will never be quite the same again, because she knows you see her as more than a friend, and she doesn't feel the same way.

Unless you are either very sure of your ground, or prepared to give up her friendship, I would leave well enough alone.

There is plenty of time, if she is at all interested, she will make sure you stay in touch, but from the sound of things, this is going to be love unrequited.

squad 617's advice is fine if you can simply walk away with a 'nothing ventured ...' smile on your face, but you kknow what? I don't see you doing that ... not at all.

[beso]

Get a grip. You are having a midlife crisis. She is just a friendly woman and would be totally creeped out if she knew what you were thinking.

You need to be reminded that you are just about old enough to be her father. You don't have a chance.

[Bbbananas]

My answer to you is an amalgamation of everyone else's so far - except for Beso's (sorry beso but I think you're wrong.) Midlife crisis at 40 - tosh! 40 is not old, and we all know that a 25 year old woman is usually far more mature in thought & outlook than a 25 year old male.

Andy has given you some sensible advice, as has Velvetee - but I am going to agree with sqad on this one. Ask her out, in a friendly keen but not desperate way. Nothing ventured nothing gained. And if you really feel that a rejection will not affect your friendship - then what really have you got to lose.

Tread carefully as velvetee advises.

But - not all women are good at reading signals and certainly not all women are very good at giving them. Before I became a 'woman of the world' and more confident, I was hopeless at letting a man know I was interested - in fact I behaved like a schoolgirl & sometimes the one I fancied the most, I ignored the most because I ddin't want to make a prat of myself. I have never liked being obvious - so sometimes I went too far the other way & gave a man the impression I didn;t much like him - whereas in fact I was dying for him to make a move...

Go for it. Life's too short to shilly-shally. And good luck xx

[sqad617]

salla....you are wonderful.......I agree with all you say.

[Bbbananas]

mwah !

[littleoldme]

Again, thanks everyone (well, nearly everyone - midlife crisis indeed! I'm no dirty old man and I wouldn't normally consider going for anyone under 30 as a minimum, but in her case I'd make an exception). The thing is of course, I know her, and I know she won't be freaked out, as long as I don't go in heavy-handed. I suspect even a rejection would be made gently and with kindness - that's the kind of person she is.

I won't be seeing her until next week, so I'll gauge the situation again then. And yes, I'll tread carefully!

[Bbbananas]

She's a lucky lady littleoldme, and also sounds to be a lovely lady. So good luck, and let us know how you get on.

I agree with you about the mid-life crisis comment. Huh! I'm 40 something - I got my crises over & done with years ago & I'm in my prime now thank you very much beso!

(40 is NOT old) ;-)

[LoftyLottie2]

Ha, ha. Midlife crisis at 40!! Whatever next.

Nice to see you LOM :o). I can't say any more than Andy and Sqad. How nice to meet a man who is so sensitive.
There is no problem with a young man of 40 having a relationship with a 25 year old. Age is immaterial anyway when two people get on so well.

Good luck to you and let us know how you get on.

xxx