Do I need to pay back money for course?

[crossing]

I few months agao my employers paid for me to attened a work related course.The one day course cost £700,I had to sign a form stating If I left work within I year I would pay back the money. I am now about to change jobs ,Do I have to pay all or any of this money back?

[factor-fiction]

I assume so- that's why you were asked to sign it. You could ask though and they might waive it.

[boxtops]

This is a condition which employers often apply when funding people for a course, I find it often in my line of work.
However, I am given to understand that the obligation is moral, not legal - and that the undertaking wouldn't stand up in a court of law if the current employer tried to sue you to get their money back.

[boxtops]

on the other hand, have a look here under Training Costs - it says that much depends on proportionality http://www.personnelt...ses-payback-time.html
If the training related directly to your job and yours alone, and made you more attractive to the new employer, then I can see why it could be refundable in part.
It's a big issue for those of us in the world of training and development - the employer will often argue "if I train them, they'll leave" .

[factor-fiction]

I did wonder that, boxtops. Maybe it depends on the wording- for example if it was classed as a loan then repayment may be enforecable. Buildersmate or Barmaid may know more about whether it's legally enforceable.

[crossing]

Thank you all for helpful comments

[bednobs]

i would guess as it is a contract, it is legally enforceable

[buildersmate]

As it is a contract (you sign a form) it is legally enforceable (for the whole of the amount).
The best way to mitigate this is to approach your new employer along the following lines:
"Look its like this - I'd dearly love to join you but my previous training course that is now so useful to you when I join you needs to be paid back to my current employer. As part of my offer package, please could you see your way clear to paying me the £700 I will owe my employer."
Make sure you do the deal so you get the £700 net of tax and NI.

[Prudie]

I was going to say exactly what boxtops did. We make our staff sign such agreements knowing they would not stand up in a court of law and have never been able to recover any expenses if the trainee then left.

[boxtops]

It has been put to the test I believe, and was thrown out as unenforceable. It wasn't a loan, the employer agreed for the person to attend the training as part of their development needs for the job, subject to signing that agreement. It seems that it's usually for the more expensive courses.

[buildersmate]

Link please, Boxtops? I don't believe you.
I've imposed this on employees - have you?

[factor-fiction]

I would have thought it was quite easy for the money to take the money back- just deduct it from their final salary payment. That then puts the onus on the employee to seek to recover. I'm undecided on the legal position- instinctively I think buildersmate is probably right but I know boxtops has experience on these matters too.

[buildersmate]

Beware unlawful deduction of earnings, F30 - unless contract exists, of course (QED, my first post).
Still awaiting the link from B/T.

[factor-fiction]

Thanks. I'm aware of the unlawful deductions issue but I was referring to cases like this where the employee signed that the money would be repaid, although of course it would need to have been made clear that the money would be taken from salary on leaving

[boxtops]

I commission education and training courses for other people, buildersmate - for 300 employers across the county - so I don't impose those conditions myself but I know that some of them do, in case their employees move on after attending that training.

However - as has been mentioned - my understanding is that cost recovery is only enforceable if it's done as per attached example - any other way of implementing an agreement doesn't hold water. http://www.theemploym...eringtrainingfees.php

I cannot give you a specific case but I have been told (through work) that other forms of agreement have been tested and thrown out.

[Prudie]

I, like boxy, was a training manager in the civil service and know about these forms. HR would consider the cost and time invoved in taking someone to court to recoup these fees would far outweigh the unlikely outcome of getting the money back. I'm sure you can't take it out of people's earnings factor - in some cases it's more than a month's salary.

[sue11]

Sound advice given as usual by Buildersmate and a good link given by boxtops providing more info as to what form the training agreement should take.
Just to add my twopence worth, we have training agreements that have been approved by our employment advisor RBS Mentor. As the link provided by boxtops states, the agreement must be separate to the employee contract, any monies taken must be on a sliding downwards scale according to the length of employment after the training has been completed, any training given must be completely separate to the day to day job that an employee does i.e it cannot be on job training. Also the employer must be able to prove the costs quoted are genuine provable costs, they cannot pull figures out of a hat to quote to an employee. I can confirm with our company that if an employee leaves falling within the above criteria, we can and have taken money from final salaries!
Hope the extra info helps.
Sue

[buildersmate]

I've never for a public sector employer (mercifully).
But I think Sue has bottomed this out correctly.