Body & Soul1 min ago
Personal care within a residential home setting.
Are there any laws preventing Opposite sex carers providing Personal care within a residential care home setting?
I am horrified to discover that male carers within my Mothers care home have been providing personal & intimate care to my Mother (who has dementia).
She also would be horrified to realise that her dignity has been compromised in this way.
Can anyone direct me to any law around this matter? thankyou.
I am horrified to discover that male carers within my Mothers care home have been providing personal & intimate care to my Mother (who has dementia).
She also would be horrified to realise that her dignity has been compromised in this way.
Can anyone direct me to any law around this matter? thankyou.
Answers
Yes her basic human right of privacy and dignity has been abused!!
Talk to the manager of the home and this...
Talk to the manager of the home and this...
22:45 Tue 08th Nov 2011
When my very elderly father was dying in hospital in the early 80's he was not rational, was very agitated and distressed. It was horrible to see.
I don't know where his mind was at, his GP was black and he was very happy with him, but in those last few days of his life he was adamant that only white people tend him and got hysterical and abusive (very unlike him) if any black or Asian people tended him.
Maybe he was back in the war - I don't know.
It was horrible for the hospital staff, horrible for him and horrible for us.
He had no choice.
It did show me how very distressed and irrational people who are ill can become. I honestly don't know if it is right that sick people can demand who look after them, providing that those that do are properly able to do so.
I don't know where his mind was at, his GP was black and he was very happy with him, but in those last few days of his life he was adamant that only white people tend him and got hysterical and abusive (very unlike him) if any black or Asian people tended him.
Maybe he was back in the war - I don't know.
It was horrible for the hospital staff, horrible for him and horrible for us.
He had no choice.
It did show me how very distressed and irrational people who are ill can become. I honestly don't know if it is right that sick people can demand who look after them, providing that those that do are properly able to do so.
personally i don't think it's right thta patients should "demand" who does and does not cre for them - as a nurse, i would not be within my rights to say who i will and will not look after (should i refuse to look after people who have had abortions because i don't believe in it? should i refuse to look after white people because i don't like them much? should i refuse to look after men because i am a woman?)
I think it's all very well for a person to state a preference of not having male carers look after them, but as dzug says, at the end of things it's at the home's discretion, and unless the carers are being inappropriate with someone there has to be some acceptance that at times it's unavoidable for male carers to do the caring. RATTER if every female resident int he care home expressed a preference not to have you look after them, what would you do all day?. What if you were the only one available and someone was sitting in a bed full of wee and poo? would you just leave them there because their family had said you would be compromising her dignity to get her out of a wet or dirty bed and clean her up? just leave her sitting there with skin getting excoriated?.
I really don't understand why male carers + female patient = compromised dignity or abuse
I think it's all very well for a person to state a preference of not having male carers look after them, but as dzug says, at the end of things it's at the home's discretion, and unless the carers are being inappropriate with someone there has to be some acceptance that at times it's unavoidable for male carers to do the caring. RATTER if every female resident int he care home expressed a preference not to have you look after them, what would you do all day?. What if you were the only one available and someone was sitting in a bed full of wee and poo? would you just leave them there because their family had said you would be compromising her dignity to get her out of a wet or dirty bed and clean her up? just leave her sitting there with skin getting excoriated?.
I really don't understand why male carers + female patient = compromised dignity or abuse
Bednobs, we are talking seriously disturbed people here, they don't understand reason, they often have no concept of reason, would you find it acceptable to forcibly hold down a confused lady, forcibly remove her clothing and wash every part of her? That is the issue here and there is no exaggeration!
Male carers often find it very difficult to get jobs in care because of this, if a female does not want a male carer she does not have to have one.
The dementia side of thing is a little easier because many dementia sufferers have no objection and neither do their families but some do object. We always have male and female staff on duty and never will two males work together on the unit as this would limit the care to male care. two women can work together as this never presents a problem.
I have never known a situation in the homes where I have worked where that choice has been taken away from a resident.
Male carers often find it very difficult to get jobs in care because of this, if a female does not want a male carer she does not have to have one.
The dementia side of thing is a little easier because many dementia sufferers have no objection and neither do their families but some do object. We always have male and female staff on duty and never will two males work together on the unit as this would limit the care to male care. two women can work together as this never presents a problem.
I have never known a situation in the homes where I have worked where that choice has been taken away from a resident.
how do you now the mum is being stripped and held down?
you say "thast is the issue here" but i fail to see how you can know that as the poster hasn't said that at all! Unless you have communication with her outside this site? Are you saying that all male carers just hold people down and strip them? Do you??
you say "thast is the issue here" but i fail to see how you can know that as the poster hasn't said that at all! Unless you have communication with her outside this site? Are you saying that all male carers just hold people down and strip them? Do you??
"I really don't understand why male carers + female patient = compromised dignity or abuse"
If a female does not want a male carer to attend to her personal care then it would be an abuse of her basic right of dignity to ignore that request.
I tend to females every hour of my working day but if any of my ladies requested a female carer there would be no argument, she would be assigned a female carer and her care plan would be amended to reflect this immediately.
If a female does not want a male carer to attend to her personal care then it would be an abuse of her basic right of dignity to ignore that request.
I tend to females every hour of my working day but if any of my ladies requested a female carer there would be no argument, she would be assigned a female carer and her care plan would be amended to reflect this immediately.
i am not doing that deliberately ratter, it just seems to me (and apparently to nox) that you see male carers looking after female patients leads to abuse. You said "that is what we are talking about HERE" but the original poster has not even said that the mum (or her) has requested female only carers, so she probably hasn't. Therefore it's not abuse is it?
"also, you haven't answered my q - if the female carers were tied up with another patient, would you just let someone sit in a wet and diry bed?"
If it was discovered that a resident was sat in a dirty bed it would be attended to immediately, if the female carers were tied up with another resident they would not be aware of that situation. It certainly isnt a situation I have come across that has presented a problem.
If it was discovered that a resident was sat in a dirty bed it would be attended to immediately, if the female carers were tied up with another resident they would not be aware of that situation. It certainly isnt a situation I have come across that has presented a problem.
Bednobs, I have certainly not suggested that male carers looking after female carers lead to abuse. What I have made very clear is that a female has the right to choose a female carer for her "personal care" needs. If this right is ignored her basic right of dignity has been abused.
So would you condone holding down a frail lady, possibly in her 90s while she is screaming and terrified and being stripped naked to bath her, that would be the situation that I could be faced with daily if this basic human right was taken away from her. Im sorry but I am being totally realistic here.
So would you condone holding down a frail lady, possibly in her 90s while she is screaming and terrified and being stripped naked to bath her, that would be the situation that I could be faced with daily if this basic human right was taken away from her. Im sorry but I am being totally realistic here.
I absolutely would not condone that, but you are making agreat leap here - That having a man attend to a woman's personal needs leads "daily" to the women being held down and stripped. I am not saying htat women in care homes don't have the right to state a preference but that there is no law against male carers giving women personal care, and at the end of things it's at the homes discretion, despite what preference people have stated. Have you ever seen a female resident being held down and stripped against her will? Your replies intimate that it's an inevitable consequence of male carers Vs female patients, or that it is a relar occurrence. Clearly unqualified care staff must be very different to qualified staff in the way they give care if this is the case. Personally if i'd ever seen what you are suggesting i would have gone to the police, or at the very very least the home manager
Bednobs, at the end of the day all I am saying is that a female resident has the choice of a female carer, if she does not want female carer that is her right, going against her right is a clear abuse!
You appear to be twisting everything I say.
You are suggesting that whether a female likes it or not she should be attended to by a male if a female carer is not available.
Im sorry that is not acceptable, A female carer must be made available!
You are clearly not taking into consideration the mental state of these people and the mental anguish that these ladies may experience, they do not rationalize like a normal person would.
You appear to be twisting everything I say.
You are suggesting that whether a female likes it or not she should be attended to by a male if a female carer is not available.
Im sorry that is not acceptable, A female carer must be made available!
You are clearly not taking into consideration the mental state of these people and the mental anguish that these ladies may experience, they do not rationalize like a normal person would.
<<I am horrified to discover that male carers within my Mothers care home have been providing personal & intimate care to my Mother >>
The OP is presently the one horrifed........
<<She also would be horrified to realise that her dignity has been compromised in this way.>>
The patient doesn't seem to realise........and therefore can hardly be outraged.
I understand that there are protocols to be observed, but if the carers have not been made aware of the wishes of the family of this patient, it's pretty rich for their efforts to be described as 'abuse'!
The OP is presently the one horrifed........
<<She also would be horrified to realise that her dignity has been compromised in this way.>>
The patient doesn't seem to realise........and therefore can hardly be outraged.
I understand that there are protocols to be observed, but if the carers have not been made aware of the wishes of the family of this patient, it's pretty rich for their efforts to be described as 'abuse'!
JTH, I think I clarified that in my very first post if you read it, assuming that was aimed at myself.
Most people with a dementia are perfectly aware of what is going on around them and will hold a conversation (of sorts), very few are not aware of what is happening to them.
most of them are also very clear about their wants and dont wants.
Most people with a dementia are perfectly aware of what is going on around them and will hold a conversation (of sorts), very few are not aware of what is happening to them.
most of them are also very clear about their wants and dont wants.
I'm only dealing with the facts presented in the OP, Ratter.
And they do not seem to suggest any sort of abuse to me. However, if ivy wants to fill us in on what instructions were given to the care home staff......quite how her mother has communicated her 'horror' (the use of the word 'would' is significant) to the OP then I'm willing to revise my opinion.
And they do not seem to suggest any sort of abuse to me. However, if ivy wants to fill us in on what instructions were given to the care home staff......quite how her mother has communicated her 'horror' (the use of the word 'would' is significant) to the OP then I'm willing to revise my opinion.
jth, I agree, if no clear instruction has been made to the home then no intentional abuse has taken place.
I know that on admission to a care home this should have been sorted out, if these questions aren't asked then this sort of thing happens.
Where I work, this would have been sorted on admission and any such choices would be listed in her care plan, we would never go against this!
I know that on admission to a care home this should have been sorted out, if these questions aren't asked then this sort of thing happens.
Where I work, this would have been sorted on admission and any such choices would be listed in her care plan, we would never go against this!
In the care home I was working at there was a Lady with slight dementia, when the staff left that night it was up to that carer to either clean whatever came along with personal care, my job was a support worker I had no problems with the person's personal care, 99%.5 of carers are trustworthy Ivy. we all were thanked by the persons relatives for the way we looked after this person, as regards the Law I'm positive there is not unless requested.
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