Abh Advice Please...

[AlmondMilk]

Hello,

I just want some advice please.

I have been arrested for ABH for breaking someone’s nose. We were both drunk but the other person is saying I punched them for no reason. There are a few witnessess that are saying I started it and hit the other person first but they were with them and are friends with the other person so surely they are not independent witnesses? What evidence would the police and cps need to proceed with a charge for ABH? Could they go just on statements from the other person and their friends?

If found guilty after trial at court what are the likely outcomes?

I have had a warning for assault that I received over 6 years ago and convicted of being drunk and disorderly 3 years ago. I’m also high up in a business and in a position I have worked very hard to achieve so do not want to lose this.

[nailit]

//My main concern is going to prison as I will lose my job and my livelyhood. I will lose everything because of someone else’s decision to start a fight with me. I know you can’t tell me what exactly will happen I just wanted some possible likely scenarios//

Ignore me then...Talking drunken rubbish or something. Ive lost my house and everything before now because of the exact same thing m8.

[Barmaid]

Nailit, that's not helpful.

[nailit]

Maybe not BM but gotta face facts, no?

[Barmaid]

Nailit, I have set out my views and Chris has set out the sentencing guidelines. No one can say.

The advice is "see your solicitor".

I have already said what my view is on your case and that is as far as I can go. No point in hitting out at people because you went to prison and 21 years later others may not.

[nailit]

BM I was sent to prison for a lot less, would it have been helpful to me to give different advice?

[jackthehat]

Nailit - This thread is *not* about you and your history.

Almondmilks situation is entirely different from yours and no-one can say quite why you were treated as you were in the same way that no-one can have foresight of exactly what will happen to him.

[Zacs-Master]

There’s a world of difference between saying nowt and giving negative, possibly incorrect ‘advice’.

[Barmaid]

Nailit, stop trying to argue with me when I do not have sufficient facts on either case to form a fair view.

As I have said leave it.

To the OP: Please just see your solicitor. Nailit went to prison for a lot less, but please bear in mind that personal circumstances and offence circumstances will make a difference.

[AlmondMilk]

Thank you for your view on the situation Nailit. It’s exactly what I don’t want to happen. Barmaid thanks again. Whatever the outcome I will learn from this and completely avoid any situation that could lead to a fight.

[nailit]

//No point in hitting out at people because you went to prison and 21 years later others may not//
Agree entirely BM.
Prison achieves nothing. Hope AM recieves help instead of punishment.

[Peter Pedant]

can I chip in my two penny worth /

Do an anger management course - as well. I cant fault - get a lawyer (you have) and take his advice rather than ours ( besides Barmaid of course ) .

You say you have previous, and a good job you have worked hard for so NOW you need to lose your wide-boy persona when you have been drinking - do an anger management course.

everyone likes a drink - no one likes being smacked in the mush when they have been out for a few bevvies

[nailit]

//Nailit - This thread is *not* about you and your history//
No, of course its not, except that I may have similarities that might me want to respond.

//Almondmilks situation is entirely different from yours//...except that it is not is it?

[jackthehat]

Yes.
Because yours is done and dusted and the result cannot in any way change.
AlmondMilk is at the start of his and good advice can help him.

[Barmaid]

Excellent advice from PP. The more you do yourself at this stage, the more you will have in mitigation should you plead guilty or be convicted.

Nailit. I am going to type this slowly because you are obviously hard of thinking tonight. We DO NOT KNOW. We DO NOT KNOW the full facts of your offence and offending history nor of the OPs offence and offending history. Yours was in 1997. He is looking at 2018. 20 years is a big difference for a start.

You've made a valuable contribution. But that's as about as far as anyone can go right now.

[Peter Pedant]

jesus this thread reads as tho half of us ( not barmaid who is a goddess ) have been out for a bevvie wiv AM and are just about to set about each other

do as BM says, and the rest is .... angel dust.

[Buenchico]

Nailit:
The three category system referred to in my posts above (and in my Sentencing Council link) didn't exist when you came before the courts, so it can't be applied to your situation.

AM:
As has been said several times already, it's really your solicitor's advice which you ought to be taking. However perhaps you ought to also think how the magistrates might see things.

Although the law is meant to work on the basis of 'innocent until proven guilty' there can come a point when people's minds start to work the other way round.

If you appear before the court and don't dispute that (a) you swung a punch and (b) that punch broke someone's nose, the magistrates are likely to take the view that you're clearly guilty of ABH unless you can show a damned good reason why they should find otherwise. (i.e.the point has been reached in their minds where it's effectively up to you to prove that you're innocent, rather than up to the prosecution to prove you guilty). Given that you've indicated that the only witnesses are likely to be hostile towards you, that could turn out to be extremely difficult.

Hopefully I've explained my reasoning why it MIGHT be best to plead 'guilty' but I'll repeat once more that you should listen to your solicitor.

[EDDIE51]

AlmondMilk, Just a question.
Did you hit the other person or not?
If you did, my advice is still to plead guilty and take advantage of the 1/3rd reduction in sentence.
If not then plead not guilty and go for trial.
I agree that I was reading your post as if you did hit the other person which is why I said to plead guilty. Only you know if you did it or not, it makes no difference to us as you are anonymous.
Just to repeat you really DO need a solicitor ,there is too much at stake not to use one.

[AlmondMilk]

Hi Eddie,
To your question, I did but only in response to their initial blow to me. Obviously my blow caused the worse injury but I feel the police have made up their mind on me being the aggressor due to their statements. The person had people with him and I couldn’t just walk away so I fought back. I appreciate your advice but I will see what my solicitor says and update this when I have more info.

[AlmondMilk]

Hello, I have subsequently been charged with Affray aswell as ABH as it has come to light that a number of witnesses saw the fight. There are some inconsistencies within their statements that I feel my defence solicitor could pick apart but I don’t know if it is worth it. My main priority is avoiding a custodial sentence. What do you feel the probability of avoiding one would be now I have also been charged with Affray. Also surely the other party should be charged with affray? They are all saying I struck this person for no reason which resulted in a fight and the other person trying to defend themselves. What can I do now other than take an anger management course to help me.

Thanks.