Deaths

[ukanonymous]

Hey peeps I dont usually get all political but..... hehe always a but. If you look at these statistics

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/totaldeathsin2019and2020sofarintheuk

Isnt this proof there is no pandemic? I understand that with lockdowns etc there will be less traffic accidents etc etc but also there are more deaths from diseases such as cancer etc because of the lack of treatment.

Anyhoo maybe I am wrong but what is all the commotion about when there is no significant increase in deaths?

If you look at the BBC they are saying hospitals are over run yet look at this lady's video the hospital is empty and she ended up getting arrested https://twitter.com/ninnyd101/status/1343527984976842752?s=19

Why are we being spoon fed fear and why does a bit of very basic research show this all to be not as we think?

I also know a lady with late stage lung, liver and cervical cancer die , get covid put on the death cert as well as one lady who died of dimetia.

None of it makes sense to me why does everything g contradict what is being pushed by the TV news?

[Peter Pedant]

// There should be a special place for fools like you.//
how insulting!

yes or no ( it doesnt matter ) you're right!
this must be the 19th thread on this rubbish and I agree! I have changed my mind! no deffs no nothing
everything normal

like anthony fauci ( whom I like very morchy ) I am not saying they are still alive. They are dead all right. and died from something else. Cause of death - - "it makes you dead" John Smith MB

[youngmafbog]

"The alternative would be to do a post mortem to ascertain the exact cause of death and to find out if Covid was the culprit. That should cost a few billion £ and achieve nothing."

I disagree. If you present irrefutable facts clearly, without exaggeration and totally transparent a) you will get people on side b) you can actually see what you are dealing with. See the wood for the trees etc.

[woofgang]

Repeat after me
"Research is not twitter and youtube
Research is not twitter and youtube"

[THECORBYLOON]

The figures in the ONS reply cover different lengths of time but that is not their fault as they gave what was requested.

The person requesting the information should have asked for the most up-to-date figure for 2020 and the figure for 2019 covering the same number of weeks as that for 2020.

[Peter Pedant]

rowan - he says there are no excess deffs
so for the purposes of this thread - he's is right

and so in a Trump stream of thought: no deaths no covid

simples - take the BA away from her!

[ToraToraTora]

YMB: "If you present irrefutable facts clearly, without exaggeration and totally transparent a) you will get people on side" - if only that were true, the THB are impervious to irrefutable facts. eg the flat earth brigade!

[douglas9401]

Indeed ymb, but those figures may turn out to be not as scary as needed to keep the masses in check, hence the fast and looseness and adjustments going back a month.

[Peter Pedant]

Anyhoo maybe I am wrong but what is all the commotion about

no you are clearly right - and so the commotion must be - - to cloak the crock up that is Brexit

you know wiv logic like that and an essex accent -I should be President of the United Kingdom ( er no election needed - it stands to reason)

[Khandro]

Gov. figures of the total number of deaths (of all causes) in the UK in 2019 was 530,841. - Decrease of 2% on 2018

The total number of deaths (of all causes) in the UK in 2020 up to week 45, - 13th Nov. (only figures so far released) was 529,929.

Hardly alarming ?

[jim360]

If you've hit last year's total with seven weeks to spare, I'd call that alarming. That represents a likely excess off 70,000, or in the region of 15%.

[jim360]

It could have been so much worse, as well -- imagine what would have happened had the Government, and society at large, not tried to bring the pandemic under control in the Spring. Nightmare scenario, especially as, back then, we had little idea how to treat it. As it is, part of the reason the death toll isn't as high as earlier is because medical practices have improved

[THECORBYLOON]

KHANDRO, the latest data for 2020 deaths show a further 62,597 folk have died in England and Wales and that is only until 18.12.20.

[Peter Pedant]

and 70 000 is the number of covid deaths

dont tell them Jim ! - even the quite awful DOUGLAS SPIEGENHALTER who was the first to say that the death curve exactly overlay the season average for five years - Mar Apr 2020
( ergo no extra deaths )
NOW says
yes but no but you add the two curves ! - so it is twice what it was! I have been misunderstood the poor professor whined
and he wants to be a prof of understanding and communication of stats !

roll on progress

[Peter Pedant]

come on Jim - when do you present your thesis by the way?
and crobo

billshort always baffles brains

[jim360]

I present my thesis in July 2018. :/

[eve1974]

Up until fairly recently I have been quite sceptical. No more. I believe it has taken a serious significant turn for the worse. I think what finally swung me was listening to some interviews with London icu doctors. They have no reason to lie and by the very nature of their profession are calm and measured.... things are bad now!

[Khandro]

jim // That represents a likely excess off 70,000, or in the region of 15%.//
But that is of ALL causes. Is even 15% extra deaths p.a. worth putting millions of people out of work from jobs of which many will not return, ruining millions of small businesses, crashing the economy (national debt is now over 2 trillion) huge hidden at the moment, mental health issues, & putting future generations in comparative poverty paying it all off?

[tiggerblue10]

What about the NHS? Do we sit back and let them buckle under pressure? And during the first wave we saw the deaths of many doctors, nurses and other health care professionals around the country.

[jno]

blimey, PP, even innumerate I can see that that's a mistake.

[jim360]

Firstly Khandro, having got your facts wrong shouldn't you start by admitting that? Secondly, I'm impressed that you can so swiftly recycle the same argument that 15% is a tolerable excess when that argument was initially based on a 0% excess (or, at least, a comparable figure). What's the limit to an "acceptable" excess, I wonder? 30%? 50%? 100%?